Burnsie's Unexpected 17.56-2 Outback

[burnsie]

Hey @Cheyne78 been looking into the Redarc BMS systems and there are some pretty good prices on the old model BMS1215S2 which looks pretty similar but is only 15amp I believe, not sure how much of a difference this makes, but they are selling for under $1000 which is less than half price.

Any thoughts on this model compared to the new Manager 30?

 

[Bluey]

Yeah @achjimmy I asked them to do that already but the dealer advised that they wont re-plate it once it leaves the factory.

Next obvious question, has anyone been able to get their ATM plate changed once it has arrived at the dealers to account for the accessories or extra available weight?

yes geelong changed mine I told them it must be 2500 kg all up but plate said it was nearly 2600 so he got a new one don't pic it up until its what u want ?????

 

[burnsie]

@Bluey sounds like I will be having some more discussions with the dealer to see if this can be changed, suppose the only problem I have is that mine was/is floor stock and I have added these things myself through the dealer, where as you ordered yours this way, would be nice to get the plate changed and knowing they have done this and it is possible will give me some ammunition

 

[achjimmy]

Yeah @achjimmy I asked them to do that already but the dealer advised that they wont re-plate it once it leaves the factory.

Next obvious question, has anyone been able to get their ATM plate changed once it has arrived at the dealers to account for the accessories or extra available weight?

Yes twice and and I recall another Sandgroper had as well. Tell em it's off as it won't be suitable for purpose

 

[Cheyne78]

Hey @Cheyne78 been looking into the Redarc BMS systems and there are some pretty good prices on the old model BMS1215S2 which looks pretty similar but is only 15amp I believe, not sure how much of a difference this makes, but they are selling for under $1000 which is less than half price.

Any thoughts on this model compared to the new Manager 30?

HI @burnsie . Im not surprised they are getting cheaper but I would be concerned about a 15A charge rate for the solar . It would also take forever to get a decent charge into 2* 100ah batteries if you were touring (not that the Expanda is set up for it). I also think they have made improvements where it automatically selects the most environmentally friendly charge and can accept multiple inputs ( I may be wrong on this) so in theory you could have solar and DC simultaneously or at the very least it will select the highest charge rate. I don't believe the BMS1215 can do this so for me I would rather save some more $$$ and put it towards the Manager 30.

 

[burnsie]

Hi All

Been in discussions with the dealer and I am trying to wrap my head around the different weights that are associated with a caravan. I am trying to work out how much weight I can put into the van which will include water, gas and personal items etc (Payload) and as this is a dual axle 17.56-2 OB I believe this is 475kg.......... plated weights are

Tare: 1857 GTM: 2129 ATM: 2332 Ball Weight: 203

My understanding is that the payload of 475kg which is the difference between the Tare and the ATM has to include the tow ball mass/weight when being weighed, so does that mean my 475kg payload taking away the tow ball mass/weight of 203 gives me approx 272kg of available weight to add water, gas, weber, tables, chairs and personal items etc to the van?

I have had mixed responses on this so far from insurance and the dealer mainly advising that I can put 475kg of water, gas, personal items etc into the caravan and not to worry about the tow ball mass/weight as this is not included?

Be interested to here everyone's thoughts on this.........

 

[Soaring]

No @burnsie.
The ATM is the total allowable weight of the van and the gear you put in it.
You would measure this by putting your van on it own on a weighbridge, sitting on its wheels and the jockey wheel.

The GTM is the weight that would be on the wheels only. This would be measured on a weighbridge by just having the wheels on it, with the coupling either attached to your car or resting on the jockey wheel, but off the weighbridge.

The difference between the two is your ball weight.

The tow ball mass will be given as two numbers. On is unloaded and one is max. This is just the load that the coupling will exert on your tow ball.
So when you load up your van with the 475kg payload, you need to ensure that it is not all sitting on your drawbar. It needs to be balanced mainly above the axles.

I have seen a good drawing if this somewhere that probably explains it better than above.

Key message,
Keep your total weight below the ATM, keep your ball weight below the "Max ball weight"
Your car towing capacity should be greater than your ATM, and your cars max ball weight should be above your vans max ball weight.

 

[Soaring]

this may help.

this is mine,

 

[burnsie]

Hey @Soaring thanks for the info, did you ever weigh yours to determine if the tare weight plated was accurate? have heard the usual stories of tare weights being a lot higher than the plated weight which then impacts on the payload

 

[achjimmy]

My van doesn't have a Tare listed on the compliance, which I wasn't fussed about but the dealer gave me the weighbridge certificate. But I was too late to the weighbridge after picking it up. When I did weigh her I had added heater, carpet, step and a few other things and she was plus 120kg on Jayco's measurment! Weighbridge operator said there was a 20kg variation so 100kg give or take. What didn't gel was the ball weight with my measurment being higher. Now after reading @Soaring excellent explanation I am wondering is the variation in towball weight in the weigh its measured? All I did was just Jack it off the towball and back down to get both measurments whereas say Jayco actually wheeled the van forward so the jockey wheel was off the scales would the fact it's 300mm down the drawbar change the reading much, ie pendulum effect?

 

[Soaring]

Hey @Soaring thanks for the info, did you ever weigh yours to determine if the tare weight plated was accurate? have heard the usual stories of tare weights being a lot higher than the plated weight which then impacts on the payload

@burnsie, it was something I intended to do, but if you don't do on the way home, you never will have the van empty again to do it.
Actually, thinking about it, even when we picked up the van, there was already some water in the tanks, in the hot water unit and in the toilet top tank, plus both gas bottles were full, so we wouldn't have been able to get an accurate tare weight.
I am planning on visiting the weigh bridge before we head off on our Half Lap, but a few more mods to do first.

 

[Bluey]

they weigh them without gas bottles too so this adds a bit im over all this weight stuff every time ive weighed its different loaded or not will just try to keep as much stuff out of the van shop when I get there to keep food and fridge weight down prado tows it like a piece of cake so im happy with that for now still think I will get a different car one day maybe the new ford coming out just to be sure

 

[burnsie]

Finally got around to ordering the rear camera for the van, ended up going with the Safety Dave kit with the single white camera, looks fairly straight forward to install and the customer service from Dave himself was excellent, spoke to him twice last night after hours.... it is currently in a express post bag heading over to the west coast......another mod to install, these are starting to pile up

 

[burnsie]

Let's hope this new mod will help me keep my fuel bill down whilst help me keep an eye on the tow vehicles performance.......

 

[dagree]

Still tempted to get a scangauge for the Prado..... One day

 

[Shane Norwell]

Let's hope this new mod will help me keep my fuel bill down whilst help me keep an eye on the tow vehicles performance.......

View attachment 31985 View attachment 31986

Had a scan gauge on my patrol for a couple of years now and love it. Great for fuel usage but also good for checking and clearing engine faults, I get the odd fult from blocked egr valve.

Shane

 

[bigcol]

@Shane Norwell - every 3 months, or, everytime you go off road, get the MAF cleaner out and spray the living $%&^# out of it
keep it clean, and she will stay mean............

 

[Shane Norwell]

@Shane Norwell - every 3 months, or, everytime you go off road, get the MAF cleaner out and spray the living $%&^# out of it
keep it clean, and she will stay mean............

Yeh mate I do clean it fairly regularly. The fault I get is from me blocking the exhaust gas recirculation valve.

 

[Bluey]

Let's hope this new mod will help me keep my fuel bill down whilst help me keep an eye on the tow vehicles performance.......

View attachment 31985 View attachment 31986

im getting one didn't know about them so thanks @burnsie ive got safety dave stuff too very good

 

[Dove]

this may help.
View attachment 31757

this is mine,

View attachment 31758

Interesting. Soaring has a group axle load of 2700kg and an ATM of 2454kg. The max axle load exceeds the ATM. So there is a few hundred kg of safe margin. My single axle StarCraft has an axle load of 2100kg and an ATM of 2204kg. Obsoletely no margin of error. I have already had one bent axle replaced.