Electrical Dual Battery question

[ROnEM]

Sorry to hijack...I was just wondering if Jayco use a specific brand/type of battery in their vans. I noticed that RonEm has GEL batteries in his awesome setup. I have ordered a battery in mine for when it gets delivered and want to eventually install a second.

Cheers

Kenshi123,

If you are thinking of adding a 2nd battery in the future, if you budget can stretch, get it installed at the factory as this will be included in the weight of the van and on the compliance plate. Given batteries are about 30kg, this is a lot of weight to loose from your payload.

The batteries that Jayco have put in our van (Aug 2012) are RITAR 100AH Deep Cycle Gel Batteries.


Cheers,

Rohan

 

[Kenshi123]

Kenshi123,

If you are thinking of adding a 2nd battery in the future, if you budget can stretch, get it installed at the factory as this will be included in the weight of the van and on the compliance plate. Given batteries are about 30kg, this is a lot of weight to loose from your payload.

The batteries that Jayco have put in our van (Aug 2012) are RITAR 100AH Deep Cycle Gel Batteries.


Cheers,

Rohan

Thanks heaps for that Rohan. I did contact my Jayco dealer about it and they weren't sure of the battery type.
They also have a cut off date for inclusions and ours has unfortunately passed this date, so no changes.

 

[gwadir]

ROnEM

I know that the RCD will not work as it has no earth point, but I am speaking to my sparky mate about the concept of putting in an earth point where I can connect an earth lead to an earth pin driven into the ground. Will also get him to fit and certify any and all work too for insurance and compliance purposes as this is now 240V territory.

Correct me I am wrong but my understanding of how an RCD works is this.

RCD's work on the current balance principle, using Kirschoff's First or Node Law. That is the algebraic sum of all the electric currents meeting at any point in a circuit must be zero, otherwise the circuit will be broken.
In an RCD the incoming supply, phase and neutral, passes through an iron core or toroid, which acts as the primary winding of a current transformer. A secondary winding around the toroid is connected to the trip mechanism.

Under normal conditions the phase and neutral currents are equal and opposite so no flux is induced in the toroid and hence no current flows in the secondary winding.

If an insulation fault occurs and current flows to earth, the phase and neutral currents will no longer be balanced. A flux will be induced in the toroid and a current will flow in the secondary winding which will activate the trip mechanism and cut the incoming supply.

Thus an RCD should work, RCD's in the domestic situation only have the active and neutral connected through them, there is no earth connection to the RCD.

I think what you may be confusing an RCD with is an earth leakage circuit breaker which works on an entirely different principle and then you would need earth stakes, but like I say correct me if I am wrong.

Dave

 

[ROnEM]

Dave,

Great explanation of how an RCD works. If this is what is fitted in the the AMP-fibian RV02, then i am OK.

Thanks,

Rohan

 

[Kenshi123]

Gday ROnEM boots33

I was wondering if you could answer another question for me...
If I were to install another battery in the van I understand that I need to match the type (AGM, GEL etc) and capacity (100a/h)
But do I need to have the same BRAND of battery? (Ritar, Thumper etc)
I will order one sooner rather than later, but I have more options if the batteries can be different brands.

Cheers,

 

[ROnEM]

Kenshi123,

I would imagine if you are going to use different brand batteries that have the same AH rating (eg. 100AH), then they should probably have the same discharge rate/rating.

boots - Comments??

Cheers,

Rohan

 

[boots33]

For a dual battery setup to be working at it's optimum level both batteries should be identical. This does not mean that other combinations will not work but they may be less efficient. At the very least, batteries of the same construction type (AGM, Gel etc.) should be used. While you should try and match AH ratings where possible it is more important to use batteries of similar characteristics.

 

[Kenshi123]

Thanks gents. Much appreciated.

 

[Kartras]

Capt. Gadget,

I had 2 batteries installed by Jayco at purchase - mostly for the weight on compliance plate thing....

Anyway, the Setec was connected to battery 1's +ve & -ve terminals, with a cable then connected from battery 1's +ve & -ve terminals to the corresponding terminals on battery 2. 6mm cable from Setec - and replaced factory fitted 6mm2 between batteries with 6B&S - 13mm2, 7mm diameter core, 140amp cable.

Here is my current wiring diagram which details how the Setec is connected, along with all the other components.

View attachment 12539

Cheers,

Rohan

Hi Rohan,

nice wiring diagram but just few questions.???

is your redarc solenoid between car battery1 and car battery 2......

If so your charging should follow::
1. alternator charges car battery 1 till full(attains desired battery voltage)
2. Redarc solenoid operates and so car battery2 charges till full (attains desired battery voltage)
3. Ctek 250 senses tow vehicle battery voltage is high enough (13.2v) and so begins charging your van batteries.

am I understanding the operation correctly? please correct me if i am incorrect.
I am looking at charging the van battery from the alternator and wondering if i need a solenoid in conjunction with the ctek 250 or will the ctek unit work on its own. see below info found somewhere on the net:

"Once the start battery is at 13.2v, the Dual will connect to the second battery. The Dual increases the charge voltage from the alternator to better suit deep cycle batteries (GEL, AGM, etc).
The Dual charging process takes three stages: these are Bulk, Absorption and Float. When the auxiliary battery is full, the Dual will pulse or maintenance charge the start battery from the auxiliary battery.
The Dual also has a temperature sensor to protect the second battery; it reduces the charge at 70 degrees."

Regards

karl

 

[Capt. Gadget]

Capt. Gadget,

I had 2 batteries installed by Jayco at purchase - mostly for the weight on compliance plate thing....

Anyway, the Setec was connected to battery 1's +ve & -ve terminals, with a cable then connected from battery 1's +ve & -ve terminals to the corresponding terminals on battery 2. 6mm cable from Setec - and replaced factory fitted 6mm2 between batteries with 6B&S - 13mm2, 7mm diameter core, 140amp cable.

Here is my current wiring diagram which details how the Setec is connected, along with all the other components.



Cheers,

Rohan

Thanks for that diagram Rohan you have inspired me to create one of my own so here it is

 

[Burnsy]

Nice diagrams CG, good setup!

 

[Capt. Gadget]

Hmmmmm! Solar is not living up to expectations this weekend feel the need dual swap the solar regulator for a 250 dual

 

[carts]

I a bit like some of the others not fortunate enough to understand the electronics things has a question? I have 6 mmb&s run from car battery to cigarette plug in tub with a fuse set up off battery( I had it run in 6 mm to charge a fridge mainly while driving).Now if i take the cigarette plug off and connect a projecta 12 v 100 amp isolater to be then connected to a battery in a battery box ...is that ok??

 

[boots33]

I a bit like some of the others not fortunate enough to understand the electronics things has a question? I have 6 mmb&s run from car battery to cigarette plug in tub with a fuse set up off battery( I had it run in 6 mm to charge a fridge mainly while driving).Now if i take the cigarette plug off and connect a projecta 12 v 100 amp isolater to be then connected to a battery in a battery box ...is that ok??

Hi carts
Do you have 6mm or 6B&S cable run through your vehicle, there is a fair difference between the two. Either way the short answer is yes it will be ok to fit the projecta as you have said above. If you have 6mm you should limit you fuse size to around 30A max and around 50A max if 6B&S. I would also suggest you may like to replace the fuse with a circuit breaker as these are far more practical in dual battery setups. As you will now have live power at both ends of your cable run it will also be advisable to fit a second fuse/circuit breaker close to the second battery. Avoid mounting the breaker in the box if possible. As for the second battery you should choose a sealed deep cycle battery preferably an AGM or or Gel type. If you fit a non sealed type you should make sure it has adequate ventilation access.

 

[carts]

Thanks boots33,6mm it is on my ute ..thanks for telling me

 

[xpanda]

maccayak,

Yes, currently the Setec is charging the batteries when on 240V, but it appears to only get them to about 80%.

I do not have panels on the roof - they are currently a 200W folding panel that I can position at the front of the van in any direction. Yes, they weigh 23KG so not keen to put them on the roof. I have been looking at light weight flexible ones - about $600 for 200W @ 4KG.

The Ctek is the DC-DC charger from the car and also has the MPPT for solar input. this makes sure the batteries are charged to 100%.

Yes, the Setec has a 12v aux input that can charge the batteries, but as it is not capable of getting the batteries to 100% charge, then rather useless.

I am thinking of getting the Ctek SmartPass and a Ctek charger and removing the Setec all together as having batteries that are always charged back to their optimal levels will maximise their life.

Hope this helps

Rohan

Hi Rohan, where are you getting the 200w flexible solar panels from?

 

[KBerg Rig]

Hello Rohan
firstly, great job on the schematic! i'm still having issues with my fridge power on 12v, from your schematic it looks like the 12v fridge wiring is standard? I'm suffering from voltage drop and are looking at changing the wiring run and heavier duty cable (I've also got a 17.56-2) but i'm considering a complete upgrade to what you've had done as it will significantly improve my standard set up.
Thanks, Matt

 

[ROnEM]

Hello Rohan
firstly, great job on the schematic! i'm still having issues with my fridge power on 12v, from your schematic it looks like the 12v fridge wiring is standard? I'm suffering from voltage drop and are looking at changing the wiring run and heavier duty cable (I've also got a 17.56-2) but i'm considering a complete upgrade to what you've had done as it will significantly improve my standard set up.
Thanks, Matt

KBerg Rig,

Yes, the 12v fridge wiring is standard to the 12 pin plug. I have made sure, with the assistance of my auto electrician, that I have as a minimum 6mm cable to minimise voltage drop.

Long term goal is to connect the 12V from the fridge to the van's batteries as this will reduce voltage drop even further. I will also fit a motion activated switch to make sure the batteries are not run flat by the fridge. As the 150Lt fridge will draw up to 15Amps, this is no problem for the CTEK S250Dual to keep the batteries topped up as it will provide 20Amp charge to the batteries while travelling.

Good luck with the upgrade.

Cheers,

RohaV

 

[ROnEM]

Hi Rohan, where are you getting the 200w flexible solar panels from?

xpanda,

There are a number of suppliers of the 200w (2 x 100W) flexible light weight panels.

They appear to be much the same - probably from the same manufacturer!

Just do an eBay search for 200W Flexible Solar

Do your research - make sure that you have enough AMPs to charge your battery setup - I based mine on 80% efficiency for 4 hours per day. Also make sure the Open-Circuit Voltage is below 22V if using a CTEK DC-DC charger with MPPT - If you need to drop the Open-Circuit Voltage a little, you can put 2 x solar diodes in line to drop about 0.6V per diode from 22.7V to 21.5V.

Hopes this helps,

Rohan

 

[KBerg Rig]

Thanks Rohan
your response has helped me get closer on a decision, I'm now considering putting in the CTEC 250, and run the fridge from this. I'm wondering if I can stay with one battery for the time being and put the second in later. I'm not sure if that defeats the purpose though. My other issue is finding an autoelec that's proficient in caravans. I keep getting conflicting info and thoughts.
Thanks Matt K