16' Series Weight distribution systems

[Middo]

While we are talking about WDHs, we pick up a Starcraft 16.67-4 on 3rd December. Our tow vehicle is a Ford Territory.
We have a sloping driveway about maybe 5 to 10 degrees up. Any recommendations on what sort of WDH to get without digging into the concrete. Brisbane Camperland have 3 types available. The van will have a ATM of about 1.8 to 1.9 tonne. Otherwise I will be quided by their experience so to speak.
Pete

 

[bigcol]

Well its seems the juries out in WDH's. Seeing we haven't done any mod's to the van yet and fully loaded it, looks like it will be trial and error. The Patrol seems to be stock standard, so might have to beef up the rear once the van is loaded.
Cheers and appreciate all the comments.

I would like to add...........

on cars with a separate Chassis it is easier and cheaper to upgrade the rear suspension.
new HD Springs & Shockies & Airbags for my Patrol - around the $900 - 1500 depending on what brand.....
my father was quoted $2500 to do this to his Pajero - just the rear

so it was more sense to put the WDH on........

Nissan technical explained WDHs to me, in relation to their cars (im blessed i know)

It does beg the question "whos right"? Nissan has no apparent vested interest, but Haymen Reece has a huge vested interest. Nissan arent non committal, they simply say, not on our cars. Hayman Reece say yeah, yeah ,yeah.

I think (too much sometimes @Crusty181 )
that they engineer to last ?forever? - (same as the stupid weight drop in towing with an Auto) it can and will do it, just they "under-rate" its ability

and with some of the newer makes, they "over-rate" their ability

I really don't like WDH fitted to vehicles that don't have a proper chassis as it puts a hell of a lot of stress on the tow mounts and I have seen close up what happens when they pull out. The tow bar just rips away from the back of the vehicle.

I think I agree with you on this mate............

 

[bigcol]

the way the Vans are designed and built now days as well as the Cars themselves, I struggle to see the insistence for you to have the WDH

when Vanning took off in Australia, remember nearly all cars had Ecliptic springs and shockies for suspension - and no way of adjusting, changing, enhancing what you had.
if it was stuffed, you replaced with what you already had
until Air shockies arrived on the scene, anyway

now you can mix and match your suspension to your needs and requirements

I view them more like mirrors -
you need something, its your personal preference as to what you use
some people like the clip on ones,
I like the Clearview ones

my £0.1.0 worth.................

 

[Bonners]

We tow with a territory and the wdh lifts the rearend nicely, out tare is 1583, so fully load is about 1900,

 

[MichaelB]

So many different views on WDH systems and whether you need them or that I can all get very confusing!!

If found the article that @chartrock sent me when asked a similar question to be quite insightful... The link is below I hope...

Welcome:welcome: to the forum @MichaelB. As has been said, all questions answered as we do not have "silly" questions. Just beware that a lot of members take great delight in helping you spend your money.

As to WDH, have a read of this, I'm not sure it is what you are after. Good luck with your purchase.

Oh and :welcomeGlenn Dove

 

[Drover]

@Middo with the Territory being similar to my Grand and having a driveway like that I would wait and see how things go then you can decide if you need one and if so what type would suit.........they may sell caravans but it doesn't mean they know anything about towing or actually anything other than selling, better off to see how things go. Mine full load is supposed to be 18ookg, no WDH needed though.

@bigcol I was quoted $350 for labour to fit 4 x coils to my Jeep, I was doing it myself just wanted to see what they would charge, new springs were $480 shocks $390 I think, never asked about fitting the shocks, bloody exxy I thought. No chassis on Jeep, monoque body, so when things break the whole vehicle comes away......

 

[Bushman]

Well! my eye's tend to glaze over when I start to reading all the for/against, do's/don'ts maybe's etc. of the WDH
Nissan are covering their own BUTT by tell people not to use them, due to them having a problem back in late 05/06 if a towbar sheering off the then current R51 Pathfinder, in the end the problem was the supply of incorrect bolts and incorrect fitment of the factory towbar, it was then decided that if a WDH was required the only a Hayman Reece bar should be fitted.

Have Nissan ever tested with a 3 ton trailer on the rear, to say DONT USE IT.

Mitsubishi recommend the use of WDH (Pajero) on anything with a ball weight over 135 kg, Pajero's have a soft rear (factory suspension), Mine was upgraded with springs and airbags after finding it was bottoming out with my camper (jayco swan) on with a loaded ball of 16o kg,
When I picked the Panda up the dealer said I don't need the WDH, its sitting level, he forgot he was looking at an empty van and tug. Now with the Panda I run the WDH, I towed once without it about 20 km and it was damn scary.

Other manufactures say don't use them for other reasons such as self levelling suspensions etc.

Airbags, while they do assist with levelling on the vehicle (more for load in the rear), they are totally different purpose from the WDH.
And ESC is totally different again,

 

[Bluey]

interesting reading crusty181 and drover ur now making me question my thoughts ???????????? shittttt ! I thought everything was going well with my towing as I look uneasy , confused, worried , scratching my head

 

[Bluey]

Well! my eye's tend to glaze over when I start to reading all the for/against, do's/don'ts maybe's etc. of the WDH
Nissan are covering their own BUTT by tell people not to use them, due to them having a problem back in late 05/06 if a towbar sheering off the then current R51 Pathfinder, in the end the problem was the supply of incorrect bolts and incorrect fitment of the factory towbar, it was then decided that if a WDH was required the only a Hayman Reece bar should be fitted.

Have Nissan ever tested with a 3 ton trailer on the rear, to say DONT USE IT.

Mitsubishi recommend the use of WDH (Pajero) on anything with a ball weight over 135 kg, Pajero's have a soft rear (factory suspension), Mine was upgraded with springs and airbags after finding it was bottoming out with my camper (jayco swan) on with a loaded ball of 16o kg,
When I picked the Panda up the dealer said I don't need the WDH, its sitting level, he forgot he was looking at an empty van and tug. Now with the Panda I run the WDH, I towed once without it about 20 km and it was damn scary.

Other manufactures say don't use them for other reasons such as self levelling suspensions etc.

Airbags, while they do assist with levelling on the vehicle (more for load in the rear), they are totally different purpose from the WDH.
And ESC is totally different again,

nice I think im with u bushman

 

[Crusty181]

interesting reading crusty181 and drover ur now making me question my thoughts ???????????? shittttt ! I thought everything was going well with my towing as I look uneasy , confused, worried , scratching my head

Sorry. Ha.

Have Nissan ever tested with a 3 ton trailer on the rear, to say DONT USE IT.

Thats kind of my point .... I think Nissan has done exactly that. They would have to in order to rate the capacity.

Im pretty confident that Nissan have a better grasp on my car than Hayman Reece could have .... and if Nissan say "no", i would feel like im going against sound advice from the source that should know, and be in the best position to know best .....

Its not a debate between what us campers think ..... its an engineering question. Comparing cars and manufacturers offers no solution because its not comparing apples to apples. Landrover and Jeep have very good reasons to exclude WDH which we all happily accept without question; why is Nissan a pack of goof balls when they offer the same advice regarding their vehicles.

I have no clue whats been considered in the advice given by, in my case Nissan, but my moneys on the guy that designed and made the car, not the accessory guy.

Im no engineer, so i have to be guided by someone. It would makes sense that some options are potentially better, but arguable not ever when the manufacturer says, no. Would anyone with a LR Discovery, ever say, "what would those Rover knuckle head know", and fit a WDH regardless. Why is it so different with, in my case, Nissan

If they were made out of wood .... then i could offer some expert advice

 

[achjimmy]

Ah it's been very gentlemen like for now, I think you all need to jump over on to the official "weight distribution hitch forum" aka caravaners forum and have a real ding dong.

For the record I don't use a WDH. But theory wise there Can be no argument that they add load back on to the front wheels of your tug and that can only be positive. If you know anything about racing cars then you understand how much effort they go to change spring pressure either front or back by as little as 20lb to make noticeable improvements. To steering and overall handling. So they must make an improvement if correctly adjusted, that's not to say there the answer for leveling a totally overloaded rig that is still trying to run standard suspension. I believe it comes down to how your rig performs, and if your capable to make the assessment that it's satisfactory. I am comfortable with how. The cruiser tows and in difference to @Bushman had no issues towing the same van behind the same Pajero ! So really it's what you are comfortable with? No right or wrong here I think.

As for Nissan testing there rig with a 3t load Iam with @Bushman in reckoning its BS, maybe a gentle trip down the Calder hwy at 80km? the reputation of Nissan and the detonating 3 liters is if anything is coming out of there PR it should be treated the same way as pR from Canberra.

Interestingly Toyota with the Prado hitch had the exact same problem with fitted WDHs breaking hitches and didn't stop recommending there fitment ? I am betting with the Nissan and the Toyota it had a lot to do with WDH, well screwed up and overloaded vans and going up and down humps and bumps when there supposed to be disconnected?

That's my £0.10 as well LOL

 

[achjimmy]

I would like to add...........

on cars with a separate Chassis it is easier and cheaper to upgrade the rear suspension.
new HD Springs & Shockies & Airbags for my Patrol - around the $900 - 1500 depending on what brand.....
my father was quoted $2500 to do this to his Pajero - just the rear

so it was more sense to put the WDH on........

Col there should no reason the Paj is this expensive, they must have been having a lend. There wouldn't be more than another hour, hour and half more labour to fit springs to the rear of a Paj if that. Bit more involved in aligning them.

 

[Crusty181]

I love my Nissan ..... now your just all picking on me. Nic off
:violin:

 

[Drover]

At least nobody is picking on Jeeps for a change.

 

[gwadir]

Hi @Glenn Dove

Welcome to the forum

We have a 2013 18.57-6OB towed with a LC100 TD and wouldn't leave home without the bars on, as others have said it definitely improved ride quality. We also have air bags which I fill to 20psi and we are now running a McHitch Auto Coupler which we absolutely love, makes hooking up a breeze.

Dave

 

[Crusty181]

At least nobody is picking on Jeeps for a change.

Dont speak too soon

 

[Drover]

I would like to go from the Trig to a McHitch with the auto coupler just don't have a valid reason.

 

[Crusty181]

I caught up with a mate last night when I dropped my van back at the factory after our maiden voyage. He is a very distinguished and discerning individual, who has incredible taste in motor vehicles (he drives a Navara)

He noticed the giant WDH knuckle sitting on the floor and we chatted about the pro/cons & for/againsts. He threw a curved ball in to the discussion .... the car has a weight sensing rear brake system, which relies on positive load to increase and decrease braking force to the rear brakes dependant on the weight in the back of the car. Obviously a WDH would have a dramatic effect on that, and the common thought that @achjimmy mentioned about more weight, better steering and braking at the front, may just be at the expense of braking at the back wheels.

It seems it is increasingly less clear, the more you look at it. No simple answer

 

[Bluey]

I caught up with a mate last night when I dropped my van back at the factory after our maiden voyage. He is a very distinguished and discerning individual, who has incredible taste in motor vehicles (he drives a Navara)

He noticed the giant WDH knuckle sitting on the floor and we chatted about the pro/cons & for/againsts. He threw a curved ball in to the discussion .... the car has a weight sensing rear brake system, which relies on positive load to increase and decrease braking force to the rear brakes dependant on the weight in the back of the car. Obviously a WDH would have a dramatic effect on that, and the common thought that @achjimmy mentioned about more weight, better steering and braking at the front, may just be at the expense of braking at the back wheels.

It seems it is increasingly less clear, the more you look at it. No simple answer

can I say stop looking at Nissans all will come clearer lol

 

[Bluey]

I would like to go from the Trig to a McHitch with the auto coupler just don't have a valid reason.

drover u have a very good reason u want one you've worked hard u deserve what eva u can have bye it