Toyota Aurion 1600Kg

[nihonjin]

Hi I'm looking at purchasing my first van and looking at a 2nd hand 2010 expanda 16.49-1 model with tare weight of 1476.

I know it's not the ideal towing vehicle and in a few years time we plan to upgrade the car to something with greater towing capacity.

But my question is do you think it would be ok to tow under these conditions? Can anyone offer any reason why I shouldn't? Thanks for any advice.

 

[twscoot]

Towball weight might be your only issue. Have a look here. It might help.

 

[Kenshi123]

Hi @nihonjin

I would advise against it. He tare weight specifies the weight of the van before you fill it with water beer, food, beer, clothes, beer, and other things. Did I mention beer?

With a 1600kg limit, you're going to only have 124kg of weight available to use on items in your van before you go over it. (This isn't much considering your water tank will hold 80l or so)

My two bob, for what it's worth.

Honto no nihonjin desuka?

 

[twscoot]

@Kenshi123 is on the money (I missed the fact you said Tare weight not ATM).
What about a camper like an eagle or swan? They hold their value remarkably well.

 

[davemc]

You could travel without water to keep the weight down although its not just the weights you need to make sure the van/car are stable as well. If your pushing it on weights the stability of the combination could come up.
Might be best looking at some of the European type vans or a camper.
If your only traveling down sealed roads there are a lot of second hand UK vans around just make sure you get them checked out.
They normally only have 150-200kg of storage room as they do not carry water normally or have air cond.

 

[JT76]

I may be wrong but I thought if the atm of the van was over your max tow capacity then even if the actual weight was under its still illegal. Eg car can tow 1600, van had a tare of 1400 and atm of 1650. Regardless of its actual weight it would still be not on as the possible weight was still over 1600.

Plus you don't really want to play with safety so as above I'd say get a better tow vehicle or a smaller van and stay well within your limits.

 

[nihonjin]

Hi @nihonjin

Honto no nihonjin desuka?

iie gaijin desu. Nihongo wo shabareru dake desu.

 

[nihonjin]

Thanks for the comments.

I would love to have a better car for towing but buying a van is expensive enough let alone a new car as well. Also when spending that much money we wanted to try and get a van that not only suits us now but into the future so a bigger van was what we have been considering. We do plan to get a newer car in a couple years and thought if we just traveled without water and as we go camping with other family members they could help with any other gear we need to take.

Bottom line i guess is:

1) Is it legal to tow as long as we do not load any extra gear and keep to the tare weight?
2) should the car be able to tow safely as long as we are under the rated weight limit ie 1600KG

However we may have to just lower our expectations of the van or get a newer car.

 

[davemc]

I can never find something black and white if they take plate or weigh.. You hear either.
I search the TMR website just a second ago you can find do not exceed ATM or weights of car. Does not say if teh van is under although plate is over.

Your car has Max towing capacity/ball: 1600kg/160kg
What you need to know is the Kerb weight of car, GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass) and GCM (Gross Combination Mass)
The GCM is the max you can go with van and car plus Tow Ball Mass. (yes it is doubled up)
Looking on Toyota's website
Tare Weight 1480
GVM 2100 So Payload 620.
GCM 3700 (At least it has the full 1600 a few utes do not )
The Payload of 620
minus towball mass 160
minus towball 20
minus Weight Dist Hitch 30
minus fuel 70
Leaves you 280kg for people and crap in the car if you want to run the van empty.

 

[davemc]

Also its about safety of yourself, your family and others around you.. If your close to where the car will be safe all you need is something to go wrong and things could lead to danger.
The legal part and if insurance will cover you if you crash as there is only the plate to go on for weights no one ever 100% on as well

 

[Dobbie]

Thanks for the comments.

I would love to have a better car for towing but buying a van is expensive enough let alone a new car as well. Also when spending that much money we wanted to try and get a van that not only suits us now but into the future so a bigger van was what we have been considering. We do plan to get a newer car in a couple years and thought if we just traveled without water and as we go camping with other family members they could help with any other gear we need to take.

Bottom line i guess is:

1) Is it legal to tow as long as we do not load any extra gear and keep to the tare weight?
2) should the car be able to tow safely as long as we are under the rated weight limit ie 1600KG

However we may have to just lower our expectations of the van or get a newer car.

I guess you're looking at a real dilemma.

You might.....just...be able to tow but without food, clothes, water, beer, chairs, awnings, etc it's not going to be a pleasant camping experience. You might even have to leave your passengers at home!

Realistically, my advice would be to do things a bit more gradually. Maybe look at a Swan or a Dove, accumulate the camping gear and be safe and have a bit of a margin for adding some extras .....as we all do.

Sure, the setup time will be a bit longer so talk to the friends who were possibly going to carry stuff for you and convince them they need to help you get setup instead. Then you can offer them a beer while it's being done as you'll be able to carry beer.

Then, if upgrading the vehicle in the future have a really clear idea what it's specs should be to tow the ideal van and go for it once you have the appropriate vehicle.

And....we've all been through this so you're not the only one....and you're being thorough before you take the leap. Not just crossing fingers and waddling with an overloaded and unsafe combination.

So, well done and good luck.

:hurt-41:

 

[Bushman]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, basically you can't tow it with the Aurion unless it's empty, and no one in the car except driver

You say the van has 1476 tare weight, a single axle Jayco generally has a payload capacity of 300kg for non shower models, put those 2 figures together and your ATM is 1776 kg, 176kg over your legal towing capacity before you start, not to mention ball weight, and then there is your Gross Combined Mass which is the total weight of car and van together that can not be exceeded.

Ideally you need a tow vehicle with a minimum 2 ton (2000kg) tow rate for that van

 

[nihonjin]

You say the van has 1476 tare weight, a single axle Jayco generally has a payload capacity of 300kg for non shower models, put those 2 figures together and your ATM is 1776 kg, 176kg over your legal towing capacity before you start,

But if i keep the van empty of any payload or even just a few small items that keeps the weight under 1600 then this should not be over right?

Im just asking so i understand how it all works.

 

[Bushman]

But if i keep the van empty of any payload or even just a few small items that keeps the weight under 1600 then this should not be over right?

Im just asking so i understand how it all works.

Well its not something I'd do or recommend.

You don't mention how many people you have travelling, you'll be surprised how quick the weight adds up, even just adding your clothes and bedding, food, kitchen stuff etc.

Your ball weight could still be an issue, single axle Expanda's are notorious for heavy ball weight.

 

[Andre307]

I had to go through this with a previous vehicle a Subaru. It was rated at only 1400/140 only with a wdh and an upgraded towbar $$$.
In the end I traded it in a falcon which is 2300/230 which provided many more compatible vans and towed with much less strain.
If you are serious about a van outside of a camper, ultra small or European you will need to change vehicles.
You don't need to go heavy duty 4x4, second hand falcon or commodore are fairly cheap.

 

[bigcol]

I was just thinking this @Andre307

obviously the Aurion is reasonably new @nihonjin maybe only a couple of years old
depending on where you live, and how far from work, maybe a cheap Falcon or Commodore for weekend use & towing the Van - spend a couple of thousand - as long as it is safe and serviced, you would only have the rego as a cost to add to the budget

it helps if you have the coin laying around, but as you said, after buying a new Van, funds would be stretched for a bit

but it would give you breathing space on deciding on THE right car you want / need to tow and go on holidays and drive to and from work


answer to your original post
NO, you would not legally be able to tow the 16' expanda with your Aurion with anything in the Van or anyone apart from the driver in the car
and if you have to get a 2nd car to carry the family and bedding and food................not good

 

[Drover]

One of my pet subjects.................as the others have mentioned, No, you would be over as @davemc pointed out.
The tare mentioned on the plate is with no water, no gas bottles no nothing, so it's not real world and the weights on the plate are more than likely wrong................the GCM of the vehicle and the ATM of the van are the numbers to take note of, tare is just a paper weight.
Going over the weigh bridge would give the real answer though, the legal/insurance angle is one thing but I always look at the handling issue and running at or over max capacity is not wise, can provide real problems with handling and vehicle life.

 

[nihonjin]

Thanks all for all your thoughts and suggestions. We have decided to get a cheap towing car and are now looking at getting an older falcon that has towing capacity of 2300 so will give plenty of safe towing capacity.

 

[Bushman]

Thanks all for all your thoughts and suggestions. We have decided to get a cheap towing car and are now looking at getting an older falcon that has towing capacity of 2300 so will give plenty of safe towing capacity.

A decision well made, the Falcon is a good towing platform, especially the wagon, one note though, just ensure weather it be a Sedan or Wagon if it is already fitted with a towbar that it has the proper rated towbar for the 2300kg rate, because they also had a lighter weight rated towbar for some, also if an auto ensure it has a transmission oil cooler fitted.

The Territory may also be worth a look, the petrol model shares the same engine as the Falcon

Happy and safe travels, OH! and welcome to the forum,

 

[Kenshi123]

Thanks all for all your thoughts and suggestions. We have decided to get a cheap towing car and are now looking at getting an older falcon that has towing capacity of 2300 so will give plenty of safe towing capacity.

Sore wa ichiban anzen na kekkada to omoimasu.