Great news about the van - quick job, eh? Will stick with #7 unless my mechanic mate has a better suggestion. Says to drop back when towing. We'll see...booked into Big4 at Moama for last week of school hold.
Pathfinders and the wdh
- Thread starter Harv n Bron
- Start date
xpandafan, so have you opened up the module and seen the setting alteration capabilites?? cheers pace.
the 6 bolts you mention above are going to for sure mean you'll loose the towbar as they are bolted to the chassis, though the bolts which have been reported that let go are one or some of the 6 which hold the sub assembly to the previously mentioned cross member. that bolts to the chassis.
as for the airbags statement, i dont think airbags are fitted to R50 or R51 pathfinders as an option from nissan. SD/Sturt confirm or correct otherwise?? thanks. Pace.
Yes. There's 11 or 12 settings from memory and factory set it at mid point 7. Did you get the instruction page? If not I'll PM to you.
From memory the original hitch was on a flat plate held with four bolts straight up into the chassis. They sheared off and dropped the whole hitch.
The second version was an L shape. Same result.
The third is like the HR in a C shape wrapping around the chassis with extra bolts.
Thus for the first (and potentially second) the upward force of the WDH is trying to pull the plate off the chassis. Reach that one critical bump and *snap*. A C-shaped fitting redistributes the force into the chassis also preventing movement. Nissan just learnt the hard way and won't risk saying it's ok to use now - or maybe they still aren't installed right (?)
Air bags for Pathys (and many others) aren't automatic load levellers per se like in some prados or my you-beaut D4. You insert an aftermarket bag inside the spring and pump it up at the servo as required. They are there to prevent a saggy rear end when extra weight is on/in the back, and also prevent roll and sway. Each side is (usually) separate so if one side is heavier than the other - ie from a beer filled fridge - you can balance it out with two different pressures. So not a nissan option, but any mechanic could so it - or yourself if you can twirl a spanner. Google airbag man, polyairs, or Truckspring.com. Theres a few different varieties, but they all do the same thing. (Don't worry about the ones for leaf springs tho)
So I now have a quote of $445 fitted. An extra $40 to remove the old one but surely I can remove 6 bolts....
Anyone got any thoughts on if you think $445 seems like a good price?
Anyone got any thoughts on if you think $445 seems like a good price?
Sounds ok. Remember they may have to cut the rear bar as the H/R sits higher than the Nissan bar.
Maybe that has something to do with the strength of it.
Brad;19988... but surely I can remove 6 bolts....[/QUOTE said:Experiment time!! :rockon:
Fit the wdh, tow the van over speedhumps and see how long before they shear
Thanks SD. I am tipping you would want video footage posted of that experiment also... I guess the experiment ends when the brake away switch hopefully kicks in. 
ray:
Speaking to the installer I got the impression they may be replacing the cross member also. Not 100% sure though.
ray:Speaking to the installer I got the impression they may be replacing the cross member also. Not 100% sure though.
I don't remember about the cross rail sorry. I do vaguely recall it being quite a wide attachment so maybe.....
you do need to test the break away to ensure it is charged right
you do need to test the break away to ensure it is charged right
Got the tug booked in for the new tow bar. I did a further ring around just to get some comparisons on price.
I think I struck it lucky first time round of $445. Larger chain stores want to do the same job for $600 to $650.
Problem now is that they cannot do the job till first week in October and we have a weekend caravan getaway planned in between. I can't get rid of that niggling feeling in the back of my head of what is the chance the tow bar falls off for that last trip....
I think I struck it lucky first time round of $445. Larger chain stores want to do the same job for $600 to $650.
Problem now is that they cannot do the job till first week in October and we have a weekend caravan getaway planned in between. I can't get rid of that niggling feeling in the back of my head of what is the chance the tow bar falls off for that last trip....
nah. You'll be right. Ultimately, it was only few that stuffed up, and you can still tow without the wdh hitch anyway.
Don't let it bother you, just enjoy the trip!
Don't let it bother you, just enjoy the trip!
Agree entirely. I tow my 18 w/o hitch and it tracks beautifully, Brad, as Straydingo says "enjoy the trip"
Hi All,
Firstly I am new here, so please excuse my NOOBness in my questions!! I just replaced my 2012 G6E with a 2012 Pathy Ti with a Factory towbar fitted. Now thinking of getting a caravan. Im on a 12 month career break from work and plan to do a bit of travelling in between.
I have been reading about all the huss and fuss with a Pathy Towbar and not sure where to go next.
The expandas look great and been giving it a bit of thought, but i have no experience whatsoever with caravans or anything to do with towing in my entire 28 years of existance. Last time i wanted to tow a little trailer from the servo, i got my friend to drive
Now.. About me picking out a Caravan to suit the pathy, What are the things i need to look at? Noticed that brad had posted what the towbar sticker says and says something about GVM reduced to something etc is the tow download is a certain amount??.. How does anyone go about reducing GVM?
How do i select a Caravan that would suit the towbar and go without WDH? Would a smaller caravan help this cause? Its only my 19 month old daughter and wife so dont have a requirement for a huge caravan too.
My reluctance to remove this towbar is that this is a Fleet Car which i was approved with to keep over my holidays.. So i dont pay for anything on it as its salary packaged.. And they only allow genuine accessories to be fitted to the car. I can add stuff and remove before handing over at the end of lease but want to keep expenditure on the car to a minimum and spend on the caravan!
Any advise is appreciated.
PS : Brad your in rowville too eh?
Firstly I am new here, so please excuse my NOOBness in my questions!! I just replaced my 2012 G6E with a 2012 Pathy Ti with a Factory towbar fitted. Now thinking of getting a caravan. Im on a 12 month career break from work and plan to do a bit of travelling in between.
I have been reading about all the huss and fuss with a Pathy Towbar and not sure where to go next.
The expandas look great and been giving it a bit of thought, but i have no experience whatsoever with caravans or anything to do with towing in my entire 28 years of existance. Last time i wanted to tow a little trailer from the servo, i got my friend to drive
Now.. About me picking out a Caravan to suit the pathy, What are the things i need to look at? Noticed that brad had posted what the towbar sticker says and says something about GVM reduced to something etc is the tow download is a certain amount??.. How does anyone go about reducing GVM?
How do i select a Caravan that would suit the towbar and go without WDH? Would a smaller caravan help this cause? Its only my 19 month old daughter and wife so dont have a requirement for a huge caravan too.
My reluctance to remove this towbar is that this is a Fleet Car which i was approved with to keep over my holidays.. So i dont pay for anything on it as its salary packaged.. And they only allow genuine accessories to be fitted to the car. I can add stuff and remove before handing over at the end of lease but want to keep expenditure on the car to a minimum and spend on the caravan!
Any advise is appreciated.
PS : Brad your in rowville too eh?
Hi liveyk
Welcome to the forum... And no question is too "Noobey" around here.
Wow there are a few questions there so here goes....
Vehicle GVM kg less tare kg =carring capacity kg inside the pathie.
However when towing a van, the towball download exerted by the van will reduce the final carrying capacity kg inside the pathie. The sliding scale sticker is describing how much to reduce that carrying capacity by depending on the towball download of the van.
Have a read of this thread on another forum.
http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6630&sid=b6238a0d9ba243626efe952ac3b370a9&start=15
I think you will get different opinions on this forum on if you go with or without a WDH or airbags in the rear. I get the feeling that most people involved on the forum with the pathies have at least one or the other. At the end of the day, these extras are all about distributing load or making the rig and tug ride as level as possible without sagging the rear end of the car down. And that is dependent on the weight of the van and towball download. I would have thought lighter ratings in the van would mean less reliance on some of these items. But lighter ratings on vans means smaller vans I would have thought. Hopefully you get some replies from others on this.
You would be surprised how many expanda owners there are in the Rowville / Lysterfield area and are part of this forum. It's obvious owners from these areas are of a finer ilk.
Welcome to the forum... And no question is too "Noobey" around here.
Wow there are a few questions there so here goes....
Vehicle GVM kg less tare kg =carring capacity kg inside the pathie.
However when towing a van, the towball download exerted by the van will reduce the final carrying capacity kg inside the pathie. The sliding scale sticker is describing how much to reduce that carrying capacity by depending on the towball download of the van.
Have a read of this thread on another forum.
http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6630&sid=b6238a0d9ba243626efe952ac3b370a9&start=15
I think you will get different opinions on this forum on if you go with or without a WDH or airbags in the rear. I get the feeling that most people involved on the forum with the pathies have at least one or the other. At the end of the day, these extras are all about distributing load or making the rig and tug ride as level as possible without sagging the rear end of the car down. And that is dependent on the weight of the van and towball download. I would have thought lighter ratings in the van would mean less reliance on some of these items. But lighter ratings on vans means smaller vans I would have thought. Hopefully you get some replies from others on this.
Brad your in rowville too eh?
You would be surprised how many expanda owners there are in the Rowville / Lysterfield area and are part of this forum. It's obvious owners from these areas are of a finer ilk.
Hi liveyk
Welcome to the forum.
The first thing to remember that it is not a *requirement* to tow with a WDH. It can certainly be an aide on many vehicles, but on those vehicles where it is recommended not to have one, then you can certainly tow without.
For a factory installed bar, you've seen the comments above. There is a bit of doom and gloom in some of our comments, but at the end of the day, Nissan advise they have fixed the problem with the bar and says it is good enough without a WDH. You can trust that.
Airbags are also mentioned and are a very good way to help the car sit better. These act on different principles and aren't the same as WDHs so have nothing to do with Nissans recommendations. Many have found them beneficial with or without WDHs.
If you definitely want a WDH, it isn't too painless to change the rear bar over to an HR bar, and unlikely that the leasing mob will worry too much if it in the best interest of their investment.
As for the GVM : tow ball weights......well it was my initial post on PCOA that Brad refers to, and one of the reasons I sold the Pathy.
It comes down to how you kit out the car. I kitted mine as an off roader first, and then got the caravan a couple of years after.
Basically, the weight of the vehicle increases through such things as bull bars, winch, heavier tyres, extra fuel tank etc, and also driver and passengers. Once the total weight reaches a certain point, the tow ball weight allowance start reducing on the sliding scale Brad mentions.
So the Pathy Ti (2.5 litre) has a GVM of 2880kg, and a (standard) tare mass of 2212kg. That means 668kg of load before GVM is reached.
80 litres of diesel = 68kg
1 Driver + 1 co-pilot + 1 kiddie = xxx kg (I'll let you answer that) in my case with three kids we were easily hitting 280kg.
So that makes a weight of 2212+68+280= 2560kg. This is 320kg less than GVM, so according to Nissan means somewhere between 250-300kg on the towball. Ok, so that is fine for all models of Expandas. I could even throw a few bags and whatnot in.
However, in my case, I had a lot more weight on the car from bar and winch and wheels and few other bits and pieces, so when I did actually weight it with a full tank, it came in at 2460kg. Add the 280kg of people and it is only 78kg less than GVM (mine was a little different from being an '08 model, but same principle). Thus according to the sliding scale, I'd have a towball allowance of 100-150kg.
So in a long winded answer to your question, you can't 'reduce the GVM' as such. You need to limit the weight going on or in the car, to ensure that the car doesn't reach a weight whereby the towball weight has reduced to be less than the van you want to tow. And really, that means if you don't intend to but a bull bar and bits on, you'll probably be fine with a large proportion of vans - whether a great Expanda or other (lesser) brand
(This isn't just the Pathys either. Nissan is one of the very few with a sliding scale, and similarly apply it to Patrols Xtrails and Dualis also. Toyota on the other hand add their towball weight into their GVM instead so a LC200 with a weight carrying ability of 600kg or whatever is really 450kg if there is 150kg on the towball. The discovery I now have is 350kg on the tow ball until I reach the GVM, and then it immediately drops to 150kg)
Welcome to the forum.
The first thing to remember that it is not a *requirement* to tow with a WDH. It can certainly be an aide on many vehicles, but on those vehicles where it is recommended not to have one, then you can certainly tow without.
For a factory installed bar, you've seen the comments above. There is a bit of doom and gloom in some of our comments, but at the end of the day, Nissan advise they have fixed the problem with the bar and says it is good enough without a WDH. You can trust that.
Airbags are also mentioned and are a very good way to help the car sit better. These act on different principles and aren't the same as WDHs so have nothing to do with Nissans recommendations. Many have found them beneficial with or without WDHs.
If you definitely want a WDH, it isn't too painless to change the rear bar over to an HR bar, and unlikely that the leasing mob will worry too much if it in the best interest of their investment.
As for the GVM : tow ball weights......well it was my initial post on PCOA that Brad refers to, and one of the reasons I sold the Pathy.
It comes down to how you kit out the car. I kitted mine as an off roader first, and then got the caravan a couple of years after.
Basically, the weight of the vehicle increases through such things as bull bars, winch, heavier tyres, extra fuel tank etc, and also driver and passengers. Once the total weight reaches a certain point, the tow ball weight allowance start reducing on the sliding scale Brad mentions.
So the Pathy Ti (2.5 litre) has a GVM of 2880kg, and a (standard) tare mass of 2212kg. That means 668kg of load before GVM is reached.
80 litres of diesel = 68kg
1 Driver + 1 co-pilot + 1 kiddie = xxx kg (I'll let you answer that) in my case with three kids we were easily hitting 280kg.
So that makes a weight of 2212+68+280= 2560kg. This is 320kg less than GVM, so according to Nissan means somewhere between 250-300kg on the towball. Ok, so that is fine for all models of Expandas. I could even throw a few bags and whatnot in.
However, in my case, I had a lot more weight on the car from bar and winch and wheels and few other bits and pieces, so when I did actually weight it with a full tank, it came in at 2460kg. Add the 280kg of people and it is only 78kg less than GVM (mine was a little different from being an '08 model, but same principle). Thus according to the sliding scale, I'd have a towball allowance of 100-150kg.
So in a long winded answer to your question, you can't 'reduce the GVM' as such. You need to limit the weight going on or in the car, to ensure that the car doesn't reach a weight whereby the towball weight has reduced to be less than the van you want to tow. And really, that means if you don't intend to but a bull bar and bits on, you'll probably be fine with a large proportion of vans - whether a great Expanda or other (lesser) brand
(This isn't just the Pathys either. Nissan is one of the very few with a sliding scale, and similarly apply it to Patrols Xtrails and Dualis also. Toyota on the other hand add their towball weight into their GVM instead so a LC200 with a weight carrying ability of 600kg or whatever is really 450kg if there is 150kg on the towball. The discovery I now have is 350kg on the tow ball until I reach the GVM, and then it immediately drops to 150kg)
So the Pathie is now equipped with a brand spanking new hayman Reese towbar.
Before driving away I had a look under the bumper bar expecting to see this huge chunk of metal bolted in nicely under the Pathie. What I was confronted with however was a similar looking tow bar. The 6 bolt holes that held on the original where used once again. Profile of old and new look very similar.
I blurt out to the installation guy "it looks almost the same. What's the difference?"
To which he replies "This one is a Hayman Reese".
So I am starting to feel this whole venture has been completed more due to a Nissan technicality. Nissan do not recommend a WDH with theirs but HR are happy to cover the recommendation. As for visually acknowledging why HR cover a WDH and not Nissan, in that aspect I am lost for words. Because I just don't see the difference.
In the end though, peace of mind is in hand here as I won't feel any more as if the towbar cannot handle the van.
Before driving away I had a look under the bumper bar expecting to see this huge chunk of metal bolted in nicely under the Pathie. What I was confronted with however was a similar looking tow bar. The 6 bolt holes that held on the original where used once again. Profile of old and new look very similar.
I blurt out to the installation guy "it looks almost the same. What's the difference?"
To which he replies "This one is a Hayman Reese".
So I am starting to feel this whole venture has been completed more due to a Nissan technicality. Nissan do not recommend a WDH with theirs but HR are happy to cover the recommendation. As for visually acknowledging why HR cover a WDH and not Nissan, in that aspect I am lost for words. Because I just don't see the difference.
In the end though, peace of mind is in hand here as I won't feel any more as if the towbar cannot handle the van.