Chassis WDH convert! WDH / anti sway / anti bounce kit for 22 starcraft

[bigcol]

although I am not a great fan of them (WDH)
I can see the need on some Vans, I always tell people if ts over 18' or 2000kg best to try with as well as without

at that size and weight, it starts to get equal to or heavier than the tug..........

hard part is............

with the outbacks, over here in Wait Awhile, they always fit the Treg hitch from new at Caravanland

 

[craggitt13]

Without the bikes in the back of the work n play its not too bad. but with them in it does make the patrol floaty

 

[Swerve]

I personally don't like WDH as its a excuse for a poorly set up vehicle. Again these are my opinions only, so sorry all with them.

My boat is 2.5 T and tow great behind the patrol without a WDH, just need to set up the new van. My dad has a Prado and when towing his 1.5 ton van without the WDH , it was pure dangerous. I talked him into putting HD springs in teh Prado and bingo, it was sag so low before he couldnt get the WDH bars on LOL. He could now tow without the WDH as car setup for the weight.

Just my 2c, but I like the above hitch if I do need one as the chains look more appealing then the HR bars

 

[bigcol]

I personally don't like WDH as its a excuse for a poorly set up vehicle. Again these are my opinions only, so sorry all with them.

one of the main reasons why I am not a fan of them
they can "mask" something far more dangerous with a poorly set up car & caravan

 

[craggitt13]

I agree, but what i like about this wdh is the ease of adjusting. If you ask the mrs i am pretty anal about weight distribution in the van for a safe rid anyway. This is just an added precaution, not something to rely on.

 

[dagree]

I used a WDH system on the previous 16.49.3 tourer behind a 100 series as recommended by the salesman (Plus it came with the van )
Had the van and cruiser setup reasonably level and towed OK without but you can feel a difference with steering and braking with a WDH.

As @bigcol said above here we get the outback's supplied with a treg hitch. I have looked at modifying (or changing) the tow hitch to suit but once I upgraded the suspension and adding air bags in the Prado, with an adjustable hitch the Prado and van sit well within +/- 5mm from standard and feels the same as the cruiser did with a WDH setup.

My understanding is that any/all combinations of tow vehicle/caravan etc requires different setups and if/when I upgrade the Prado, who knows, It just might need a WDH???

 

[bigcol]

If you ask the mrs i am pretty anal about weight distribution in the van for a safe rid anyway.

I am glad you are as "anal" as that
not enough people are - hence the problems on the roads...........

good stuff @craggitt13

 

[jimgoose]

Hi All. I'm wondering why anyone would consider a WDH a bad idea. The idea is that it transfers some of the weight that is pushing down on the rear of the car back to the front, hopefully giving a more even balance of weight over the front wheels compared to the rear. Considering the front wheels are where the majority of your braking, not to mention all your steering comes from surely an even balance is preffered.
Of course this is only my opinion based mostly on my own observations.
I tow my 17.56-2 OB with a 2005 Prado with upgraded suspension that levelled out the ride height nicely but still found the addition of a WDH did wonders for how the car drove while towing, transformed it actually.

I did try to avoid getting one actually as it's just another thing to do when hooking up etc. I've had them on other vans and thought I could probably do with out them but gave in and got one and very happy I did.

 

[Dobbie]

I discovered that it voids Nissan warranty if you use a WDH.....hence, I don't and never felt the need to add to my setup.

So far, absolutely no problem with no WDH and I'm an obedient soul so ....

Also, I value my Nissan warranty too much to even contemplate it.

That's why!

 

[bigcol]

I'm wondering why anyone would consider a WDH a bad idea.

not a bad idea as such
just that when you do the maths & physic's involved (basically, the downward forces because of distance to axle, ball weight, distance to Van axles etc) it is a lot of force being applied to the rear of the tow vehicle to lift it up and transfer the weight to the front (in a nut shell).

on a standard vehicle,
if it is monocoque chassis, this will put a lot of strain on the rear..... a lot of strain... primarily around the wheel arch area (Prado/Pajero/D3+D4)
over a given lifetime (warranty) this can do damage
if it is a separate chassis, it also puts strain on the chassis near the wheel arch area, but usually bend suspension parts (spring hangers in Nissans / shocky mounts in Cruisers) which are the weakest link

however, once you have done any suspension work away from Factory standard
"SNIP"

I tow my 17.56-2 OB with a 2005 Prado with upgraded suspension that levelled out the ride height nicely

you have decreased the likelihood of any damage

they are a good "general" safety item
but the can mask many dangers if not used correctly

I once watched a guy loading up his bar & chain type WDH at a Van park in Kal, we were talking about them, as I was not sure if I needed one or not, as he was setting it up, he said (words to the effect) "hmmmm seems to need an extra link today............."
did not think anything of it, as he said he had been using this setup for a couple of years (his car & Van)
I met him again in Esperance, no car.............
"what happened?" said I
"cracked chassis............." said he

"WTF.............?" said I
he said, "I got to Esperance, stayed a couple of days, was moving off to Albany and when setting up I noticed again, that I needed another link to get it to sit level, it was playing in the back of his mind all the way to Ravensthorpe, when he went over a bit of a dip in the road...... didnt feel right, so he turned around and headed back to Esperance.
when he got there, he took his car (monocoque chassis) into a suspension place, and found there was a nice big crack in the chassis part just behind the back wheels on both sides
so he was waiting for a specialist engineer to have a look and see if it was a write off or fixable

his car was as standard as it came out of the factory

like I said, I always say
I can see the need on some Vans, I always tell people if ts over 18' or 2000kg best to try with as well as without

at that size and weight, it starts to get equal to or heavier than the tug..........

 

[Doc]

It's such an individual requirement based on circumstances...

Probably the most popular vehicle for recreational towing at the moment would be the dual-cab ute, yeah? They have the double deficit of being inherently unbalanced (low weight over the back axle compared to the front), AND having a long overhang between the towball and the back axle. That big lever effect makes a WDH pretty much essential to correct the imbalance that will otherwise occur when hooking a decent towball mass onto the rear end.

Many wagons have nowhere near the rear overhang, and the leverage effect is dramatically different.

I honestly don't think it's got anything to do with setting up suspension correctly - putting "heavy" springs in the back of a ute won't reduce the lift at the front axle - it will only reduce the rear-end sag. That is not a cure.

IMO another common misnomer is that a WDH should be used to return the vehicle to (basically) unladen ride height. IMO that is incorrect - it is NOT a ride-levelling device, it is for distribution of effective weight across the towing vehicle axles.

One thing I will not do however is to try and tell someone they are wrong. Everyone is an expert (me included of course!!! ) and people generally don't like to be told they're doing something wrong.

Our van is 22', towed by a Y62. I have not measured axle weights on a weighbridge - I use a retractable incremented length gauge (sorry....couldn't help myself....a tape measure LOL) to identify the front-end lift and the rear end sag. Both are within my comfort zone and the van rides level. Yes, there is a small amount of rear end sag and front end lift. But INCREASED load on the rear axle and DECREASED load on the front axle are important IMO when towing, as it is vital to have a vehicle that will inherently UNDERSTEER rather than oversteer (which will result in a jack-knife). As such I do not use a WDH. (I couldn't care less about Nissans claims re WDH and warranty etc).

With a previous van, I had two different tow vehicles during the period of ownership - one required a WDH, one did not.

Horses for courses.

 

[bigcol]

I use a retractable incremented length gauge (sorry....couldn't help myself....a tape measure LOL)

LOVE it

 

[jimgoose]

Hmm, all valid points of view.

 

[Dobbie]

It's such an individual requirement based on circumstances...

Probably the most popular vehicle for recreational towing at the moment would be the dual-cab ute, yeah? They have the double deficit of being inherently unbalanced (low weight over the back axle compared to the front), AND having a long overhang between the towball and the back axle. That big lever effect makes a WDH pretty much essential to correct the imbalance that will otherwise occur when hooking a decent towball mass onto the rear end.

Many wagons have nowhere near the rear overhang, and the leverage effect is dramatically different.

I honestly don't think it's got anything to do with setting up suspension correctly - putting "heavy" springs in the back of a ute won't reduce the lift at the front axle - it will only reduce the rear-end sag. That is not a cure.

IMO another common misnomer is that a WDH should be used to return the vehicle to (basically) unladen ride height. IMO that is incorrect - it is NOT a ride-levelling device, it is for distribution of effective weight across the towing vehicle axles.

One thing I will not do however is to try and tell someone they are wrong. Everyone is an expert (me included of course!!! ) and people generally don't like to be told they're doing something wrong.

Our van is 22', towed by a Y62. I have not measured axle weights on a weighbridge - I use a retractable incremented length gauge (sorry....couldn't help myself....a tape measure LOL) to identify the front-end lift and the rear end sag. Both are within my comfort zone and the van rides level. Yes, there is a small amount of rear end sag and front end lift. But INCREASED load on the rear axle and DECREASED load on the front axle are important IMO when towing, as it is vital to have a vehicle that will inherently UNDERSTEER rather than oversteer (which will result in a jack-knife). As such I do not use a WDH. (I couldn't care less about Nissans claims re WDH and warranty etc).

With a previous van, I had two different tow vehicles during the period of ownership - one required a WDH, one did not.

Horses for courses.

Ok . That makes sense and I love the "incremental" thingy whatamigigit.

But.... I do care about my Nissan warranty and as they've been exceptionally good with any warranty issues I've had in the past, I'll honour my part of the bargain.

My Patrol had a bit of a drop in the bum last time I towed so I spoke with the Nissan dealer who looks after my car (and me). They organised the checks, did the measurements (with an incremental thingy but theirs didn't retract), and recommended the fitting of air bags.

They then organised that with ARB and checked everything afterwards. My point is that all changes were done on their recommendation, not on my "pie in the sky" cogitations so all were working together. That gives me confidence.

I'd be an idiot to even consider a WDH, given what the handbook clearly states.

My understanding is that most vehicles leave the factory with specific chassis, suspension and tow bar tolerances then some people add superheavy vans which challenge those tolerances. They investigate via forums and jump on any suggestion which could help their situation.

Some of those suggestions are common sense and valid, but others seem to be of the "I did this and it worked, I think" scattergun approach and the whole issue is not addressed....that of whether the van being towed actually is suitable to fall within the stated tolerances of the vehicle, as stated by the manufacturer.

A bit of this and a bit of that and a lot of crossed fingers.

If it's not right for the job, then don't do it and expect band aids to solve the problem.

I'd much prefer to work within the manufacturer's recommendations ....they know far more about it than me.
If I stuff it up by going outside their recommendation, I'm accountable and not eligible for any warranty protection on the items in question.

 

[Doc]

Ok . That makes sense and I love the "incremental" thingy whatamigigit.

But.... I do care about my Nissan warranty and as they've been exceptionally good with any warranty issues I've had in the past, I'll honour my part of the bargain.

My Patrol had a bit of a drop in the bum last time I towed so I spoke with the Nissan dealer who looks after my car (and me). They organised the checks, did the measurements (with an incremental thingy but theirs didn't retract), and recommended the fitting of air bags.

They then organised that with ARB and checked everything afterwards. My point is that all changes were done on their recommendation, not on my "pie in the sky" cogitations so all were working together. That gives me confidence.

I'd be an idiot to even consider a WDH, given what the handbook clearly states.

My understanding is that most vehicles leave the factory with specific chassis, suspension and tow bar tolerances then some people add superheavy vans which challenge those tolerances. They investigate via forums and jump on any suggestion which could help their situation.

Some of those suggestions are common sense and valid, but others seem to be of the "I did this and it worked, I think" scattergun approach and the whole issue is not addressed....that of whether the van being towed actually is suitable to fall within the stated tolerances of the vehicle, as stated by the manufacturer.

A bit of this and a bit of that and a lot of crossed fingers.

If it's not right for the job, then don't do it and expect band aids to solve the problem.

I'd much prefer to work within the manufacturer's recommendations ....they know far more about it than me.
If I stuff it up by going outside their recommendation, I'm accountable and not eligible for any warranty protection on the items in question.

Mate, I like your approach You researched and fitted a solution for YOUR INDIVIDUAL REQUIREMENTS - not just blindly following the line of thinking that if you tow a caravan, you need a WDH. FWIW, I reckon you went the right way.

 

[Dobbie]

Ok. Thanks.

I guess I'm just sick of all the rumour based stuff that gets quoted and followed blindly.....and costs a fortune but may not address the problem effectively.

:focus:

The OP asked specifically about a Starcraft but I can't see anything about the vehicle towing it...I might have missed it.

I'd start there, with the vehicle, the specs for that vehicle and the specs for the Starcraft.

Then check it out with both manufacturers or a specialist. Might save some time and grief....and money.

:doh:

 

[Jamcor]

Allways thought my 2014 y61 patrol wagon towed pretty good hd springs airbags car allways sat level but every time a semi went past felt like i was forever correcting the steering allmost felt like i was being drawn in to them to scary for me after much research thought the anderson would b what i needed all i can say is what a difference it has made and that is on a car that is well set up

 

[Dobbie]

Do you have ESC?

 

[Jamcor]

No mate i do not

 

[Dobbie]

Then I think the ESC would have sorted out the sway, without the need for WDH.

We had exactly that issue before we got the ESC on the van a few years ago and I couldn't believe the difference in handling with it.

I never ever felt sway even in conditions where it had been a problem in the past and gave me the heebie jeebies.

That's why I'm not convinced a WDH is necessary if your van has ESC....you might need it to counteract balance or weight issues over 2 ton but ours is, and will never be, over 2 ton.

As said, personal preference only...everyone is different.

Also, as said, I wish I had shares in the development company!