Starcraft Starcraft 18.55-3 - Jayco design team blunder - once a happy Jayco customer

ACTraveller

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Apr 23, 2010
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There seems to be a bit of difference of opinion when and if ESC should be turned off and I am a bit confused.

I found this on the ALKO web site in the FAQ for ESC
http://www.alkoesc.com.au/escfaq.html#.VHmcOYvvIZY
Q. Is AL-KO ESC suitable for use in rough terrain off road situations?

A. AL-KO ESC should be disconnected for serious off road use as extreme bumps and rough terrain could activate the ESC.
AL-KO ESC is safe to use on unpaved roads.

So my interpretation of ALKO advice from FAQ is it should only be turned off for "serious off road" not unpaved roads.
I guess the "serious off road" is a matter of opinion, it seems like most dirt roads should be OK.
Can anyone confirm if what I think is true?
If I can travel over about 15-20km/hr ESC should be left on if I have to travel slower because of rough surface it should be turned off. The speed is based on when my ESC turns back on in my 4WD.

I think everyone is learning on ESC, and our auto electrician didn't have a clue - Now that most Jaycos have ESC as standard there are a lot of vans with it but not a lot of truly expert ESC people about - we checked out the ALKO website and they list the trained authorisied installers and there are not many.
 

ACTraveller

Member
Apr 23, 2010
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More info from ALKO ESC FAQs
Q.What are the requirements for my tow vehicle wiring to allow installation of AL-KO ESC?

A. The tow vehicle which will be used to tow your caravan or trailer fitted with the AL-KO ESC, must have the power supply for the ESC wired directly to the battery and a 30Amp fuse or circuit breaker fitted.
The AL-KO ESC should be connected to the tow vehicle using a standard 12 pin plug or 2 pin connector.
The layout for a 12 pin plug varies between manufacturers so we suggest you contact the manufacturer of your caravan to confirm how your caravan is wired.
For off road use it is recommended that the ESC is connected to the tow vehicle using a 2 pin plug such as a 50AMP connector in order to allow the simple disconnection of the ESC unit for periods of extreme off road driving.
A 2 pin connector can be supplied by AL-KO if required (Part number: 350350).

and the "power supply for the ESC wired directly to the battery and a 30Amp fuse or circuit breaker " plus all additional wiring meant our auto electrician spent 5 hours doing the job, plus the parts - minus the hour he spent down the road at the Jayco dealer learning what to do.
 

achjimmy

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Jan 24, 2011
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@ACTraveller so presuming Jayco Canberra are experts in ESC and fixed yours (presumably charging you?) by fitting it to an Anderson plug, does that mean that every Jayco they sell, delivered from the factory pre installed with ESC wired through the 12 pin they re wire?
 
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achjimmy

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@DaveS was an authorized ESC installer back when it came out. I recall him mentioning An Anderson plug, be good to get his take on it all.
 

ACTraveller

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@ACTraveller so presuming Jayco Canberra are experts in ESC and fixed yours (presumably charging you?) by fitting it to an Anderson plug, does that mean that every Jayco they sell, delivered from the factory pre installed with ESC wired through the 12 pin they re wire?

Jim
I don't know the answer to that, but as soon as we brought the van into Jayco Canberra with the brake problem and the 3 rego inspection fails, it was the first thing they looked at and recommended we fix - yes they did charge - $117. We have been looking at a lot of vans since that experience and it appears that some Jayco dealers add a connector for the ESC wiring to go through the Anderson plug while others don't - seems to split between regional country and city - with city dealers not doing it.
 
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MichaelB

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Jim
I don't know the answer to that, but as soon as we brought the van into Jayco Canberra with the brake problem and the 3 rego inspection fails, it was the first thing they looked at and recommended we fix - yes they did charge - $117. We have been looking at a lot of vans since that experience and it appears that some Jayco dealers add a connector for the ESC wiring to go through the Anderson plug while others don't - seems to split between regional country and city - with city dealers not doing it.

Interesting take on the city vs country @ACTraveller. Only problem for us in WA is we only have one Jayco dealer to choose from!!
 

Smirke

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May 9, 2014
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Smirke - each his own on this - there is a lot written on the various forums on this subject - but we took the advice of the accredited ALKO ESC installer and fitted the Anderson plug.

PS there should be two of your 12 pin plug heavy gauge connectors used - a heavy duty pink wire on connector 9 for the fridge and a second white wire for an earth on connector 10 - This is the standard Jayco pin wiring for new vans- if you only have one wire on your tow vehicle I suggest you check the plug on your van and the pin on your vehicle to ensure you have matching wires.

View attachment 28325

View attachment 28326[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the pics, but I'm too scared to touch the patrol in any way (don't want to jinx it). We got our 12 pin installed by a guy my hubby knows (they do car and boat electrics and have done since 1990.) the guy actually rang jayco and spoke to someone there about it to make sure he fitted it all correctly, he also installed an isolator switch so that the fridge didn't run any of our batteries flat. ( we got 2 in the car, and I think the van is set up to run from the aux battery, but I'm not sure anymore.) I just hope we don't have any problems, as our first shakedown trip starts the second we get our van, and we won't be able to do anything about fixing things until we get back to Perth at the end of January. (My fingers are crossed)
 
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Crusty181

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My understanding is the ESC activates (40% of max) on a predetermined lateral movement of 0.4g in a single direction, or 4 x 0.2g sequential lateral movements in opposing direction. Driving along a dirt road should be no different to driving on the blacktop ... the ESC is not that complex that it can tell dirt from bitumen.

As for off road, I would be very interested in what would cause the the ESC to activate, and Im pretty confident that I would not be dragging my 3t $60k van down a bush track that would cause the requisite 0.4g sway ..... (plus it might cause a catastrophic froth up of my tonic)

I think the location of a defib would be more relevant than whether the ESC was activating or not.
 
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MichaelB

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If I find it necessary to disengage the ESC, Ill fit an isolator under the bonnet.

Yep could always do that I guess. Like almost everything though, everyone will have a preferred method.

I guess I'm less concerned about having to turn it off in off-road situations as I agree @Crusty181 I'm probably not going to drag mine anywhere that would create the necessary g forces. I suppose you never know though.

However, like any stability control system, the ESC operates via sensors. If something goes wrong for whatever reason, and results in constant activation while towing, I want to be able to walk out the back and unplug it nice and easy without interfering with anything else!
 
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dagree

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I am quite sure @dagree recently had ESC retro-fitted to his van (at the same dealer) with wiring via an Anderson connection.
[/USER]
Correct @MichaelB .... Van was supplied with a 12 pin plug with the ESC wiring already pre-installed and connected to the plug (Didn't know it was pre-wired for ESC at the time).
When we bought the van our car was already wired using a 7 pin plug and an Anderson for the fridge. Caravanland rewired the van with 7 pin and anderson plugs. I fitted a second anderson plug to the prado for the ESC and provided a matching one to be fitted to the van but when I mentioned it Rob and Rodney from the service dept checked the existing one and the ESC wiring was already connected.
 
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MichaelB

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Correct @MichaelB .... Van was supplied with a 12 pin plug with the ESC wiring already pre-installed and connected to the plug (Didn't know it was pre-wired for ESC at the time).
When we bought the van our car was already wired using a 7 pin plug and an Anderson for the fridge. Caravanland rewired the van with 7 pin and anderson plugs. I fitted a second anderson plug to the prado for the ESC and provided a matching one to be fitted to the van but when I mentioned it Rob and Rodney from the service dept checked the existing one and the ESC wiring was already connected.

So the one Anderson plug on your van supplies the power feed for the fridge and the ESC?
 

MichaelB

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Wonderful. Thanks @dagree

I was under the impression the ESC needed its own dedicated feed. Obviously not! You mention Rob and Rodney @ Caravanland. Just for my own future reference, are these good, knowledgeable guys to deal with in the service department there?
 

achjimmy

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Jan 24, 2011
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Jim
I don't know the answer to that, but as soon as we brought the van into Jayco Canberra with the brake problem and the 3 rego inspection fails, it was the first thing they looked at and recommended we fix - yes they did charge - $117. We have been looking at a lot of vans since that experience and it appears that some Jayco dealers add a connector for the ESC wiring to go through the Anderson plug while others don't - seems to split between regional country and city - with city dealers not doing it.


When we got the current Starcraft, the brakes were unimpressive as well. I was in a hurry to get away (that's another story) so decided to see how we go and take it easy for a bit. As I have experienced before the brakes being drums definitely bed in with use, it's the nature of brake linings on shoes that they will have a reduced surface area when new. By Broken Hill and assisted by some minedee mud they were fine and I had to turn the voltage down on the controller.

I think as long as the ESC is not suffering from voltage drop or bad earth you could connect it with two 3" jolt head nails and it will work.
 

Crusty181

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Wonderful. Thanks @dagree

I was under the impression the ESC needed its own dedicated feed. Obviously not! You mention Rob and Rodney @ Caravanland. Just for my own future reference, are these good, knowledgeable guys to deal with in the service department there?
I couldn't get much sense from the dealer, so rang ALKO to get it from the horse mouth; and your right in that they recommend a dedicated feed. That recommendation is likely just be to stop people power it up by wiring through the stereo speakers, but Jayco have taken it upon themselves to go against the advice ALKO gave me.
 

ACTraveller

Member
Apr 23, 2010
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PS there should be two of your 12 pin plug heavy gauge connectors used - a heavy duty pink wire on connector 9 for the fridge and a second white wire for an earth on connector 10 - This is the standard Jayco pin wiring for new vans- if you only have one wire on your tow vehicle I suggest you check the plug on your van and the pin on your vehicle to ensure you have matching wires.

View attachment 28325

View attachment 28326
Thanks for the pics, but I'm too scared to touch the patrol in any way (don't want to jinx it). We got our 12 pin installed by a guy my hubby knows (they do car and boat electrics and have done since 1990.) the guy actually rang jayco and spoke to someone there about it to make sure he fitted it all correctly, he also installed an isolator switch so that the fridge didn't run any of our batteries flat. ( we got 2 in the car, and I think the van is set up to run from the aux battery, but I'm not sure anymore.) I just hope we don't have any problems, as our first shakedown trip starts the second we get our van, and we won't be able to do anything about fixing things until we get back to Perth at the end of January. (My fingers are crossed)[/QUOTE]

Smirke - just for completeness the other things we found that could be worth you checking on your first night out.

1. Smoke alarm did not work - changed battery with still no result - eventually bought a new alarm from Bunnings and that worked after we replaced the original Jayco fitted one. We had a similar issue when we picked up our Expanda 4 years ago - we found the battery in the alarm unit, wrapped in plastic and not connected.

2. Couple of the cupboard latches wouldn't work properly even after adjustment - we could have had an arguement with the dealer - but it was much easier to buy a couple of latches from Jayco and re-fit them ourselves

3. There were no Velcro straps on the awning arms - the little black ones that are an added safety measure to stop awnings opening while travelling - same as above they were $10 a pair - easier for us to simply buy - we felt it was a safety thing

4. Copper piping from the gas bottles went in a big loop and hung way down underneath well below the level of the draw bar almost touching the ground - we simply bent that upwards so it was well clear of the ground

5. I mentioned the bumper bar - but we will definitely leave that as a warranty issue

6. Need to fit the weight distribution bars - even with a DMax ute with a 350kg ball capacity there was a very noticeable sag - even completely unloaded bringing it back brand new the steering was light and it "hobby horsed" on the highway - Jayco Sydney said it was OK - Jayco Canberra said it should most definitely have WDS - which was not a sale to them as they recommended a Hayman Reese specialist.

7. If you are going to use the weight distribution system make sure the jockey wheel clamp does not foul the WDS bars - the clamp should be mounted inside the drawer bar - if you can't raise the caravan to make easy fitting of the bars it can do your back in.

8. The new European push out windows were a challenge at first - we prefer the wind outs, but we will give them a chance before looking for an alternative next time.

9. - the tunnel boot that is used instead of a front opening boot - is way less convenient and we had to be much more disciplined in the packing order - so we don't have to pull everything out every time - probably a good thing anyway.

10. The brakes do need bedding in as mentioned by achjimmy above - it only became a real issue for us because we brought the van from Sydney on a NSW Unregistered Vehicle Permit to then have it tested and registered in the ACT - and they failed us 3 times - even after warming the brakes up when driving to the test station.

11. Opinions differ on the need for an Anderson plug - main point is to make sure the plug wiring on your vehicle matches the wiring on the caravan pin - we opted for the Anderson plug with 30 amp wire direct to the battery with a circuit breaker, as recommended by ALKO.

One things for sure we now really appreciate all the good features of our old Expanda - now gone and missed - we have learned a lot in this upgrade and we have several must haves on our wish list if we ever upgrade again - although next time we will probably go lighter and simpler.

All these are little annoyances (part from the bumper bar) and our StarCraft was way cheaper by $1000's for the same inclusions than more expensive vans so this is a trade-off - I am sure you will have everything sorted by night 3 - enjoy your new van.
 

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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When we got the current Starcraft, the brakes were unimpressive as well. I was in a hurry to get away (that's another story) so decided to see how we go and take it easy for a bit. As I have experienced before the brakes being drums definitely bed in with use, it's the nature of brake linings on shoes that they will have a reduced surface area when new. By Broken Hill and assisted by some minedee mud they were fine and I had to turn the voltage down on the controller.

I think as long as the ESC is not suffering from voltage drop or bad earth you could connect it with two 3" jolt head nails and it will work.
Nailing stuff together .... music to my ears; finally a technical subject matter I can understand from a professional perspective. If I knew I could nail on the damned electrical components, I wouldn't have struggled so much with all that van/car wiring. The Paslode should make light work of my next wiring project