Pathfinders and the wdh

[stuartcarr2002]

So the Pathie is now equipped with a brand spanking new hayman Reese towbar.
Before driving away I had a look under the bumper bar expecting to see this huge chunk of metal bolted in nicely under the Pathie. What I was confronted with however was a similar looking tow bar. The 6 bolt holes that held on the original where used once again. Profile of old and new look very similar.
I blurt out to the installation guy "it looks almost the same. What's the difference?"
To which he replies "This one is a Hayman Reese".

So I am starting to feel this whole venture has been completed more due to a Nissan technicality. Nissan do not recommend a WDH with theirs but HR are happy to cover the recommendation. As for visually acknowledging why HR cover a WDH and not Nissan, in that aspect I am lost for words. Because I just don't see the difference.
In the end though, peace of mind is in hand here as I won't feel any more as if the towbar cannot handle the van.

Dont worry, you have done the right thing. They do look similar, but are different.

Now enjoy the towing comfort and performance of a Pathy

 

[cruza driver]

What is the difference Stuart?

Is it the thickness of the steel used or the welds etc?

 

[stuartcarr2002]

What is the difference Stuart?

Is it the thickness of the steel used or the welds etc?

To be honest i don't know... I have been told by Nissan and H/R that they are different, hence the rules about WDH...

The steel thickness and weld points would make sense. The other thought is the way it wraps around the rear cross member is supposed to be more than Nissan...

 

[Brad]

Now that it is the weekend I have had more time to have a closer look. I reacon it is thicker. Bolting on and the way it wraps around the cross member are the same. The only other difference is that the old one extended down before protruding out the back where the tow bar slotted in.
The new one does not extend down and just protrudes out the back. As a result the towbar does not clear the bumper bar. Hence a hole is cut out in the bumper bar to allow the towbar to protrude out the back of the car.

 

[Moxley23]

Hello straydingo, I've obviously heard about this sliding scale, but after reading your post I can't see what the difference is between the Nissans and Discovery or LC200 for example. If their payload is say 700kg and 180kg is put on the towbar, doesn't that mean only 520kg is left for other stuff before hitting the max allowed?

 

[straydingo]

Partially.
nissan is backwards in the way they go about it.
Toyota includes the weight of the towball as part of the GVM, as you mention. Once that GVM is reached....stop.
Nissan says as the weight increases, then the allowable towball weight decreases.
In one sense it is looking at the same coin from two sides, but the nissan way is not linear and is a little deceptive.

So toyota : 700kg less 180kg = 520kg left for vehicle
Nissan : 700kg less 520kg = 150kg max on ball (not 180kg) due to their 'stepped' ranges. And we are not to interpolate their figures between the 'steps'

Toyota also starts with a KERB weight (inc all fluids).
Nissan starts with a TARE weight for the vehicle (no fluids included) which then immediately need to be taken out of the payload allowance. (which does make their payload figures appear better than they really are, and make tototas look low in comparison)

Maybe it is just semantics, and me being picky, but I did get burnt by it......so yes I got a little annoyed (also with myself for not understanding it before overloading the car with bar/winch etc)
I will always emphasise to anyone to understand any vehicles limitations before they buy it and a van....

Discos on the other hand do not have the towball weight removed from the GVM. At any weight right up to GVM the towball is always 350kg. Once GVM is reached, then it must reduce to 250kg. They also start their weights as 90% of Kerb - mostly full tank - but with a 75kg driver included.

I could never find the specifics of how Jeep handle it - it might be in the handbook - but I understood it to be along the same lines as the Disco, but with other provisos (WDH over a certain weight, speed restriction). I stand to be corrected.

 

[Moxley23]

Partially.
nissan is backwards in the way they go about it.
Toyota includes the weight of the towball as part of the GVM, as you mention. Once that GVM is reached....stop.
Nissan says as the weight increases, then the allowable towball weight decreases.
In one sense it is looking at the same coin from two sides, but the nissan way is not linear and is a little deceptive.

So toyota : 700kg less 180kg = 520kg left for vehicle
Nissan : 700kg less 520kg = 150kg max on ball (not 180kg) due to their 'stepped' ranges. And we are not to interpolate their figures between the 'steps'

Toyota also starts with a KERB weight (inc all fluids).
Nissan starts with a TARE weight for the vehicle (no fluids included) which then immediately need to be taken out of the payload allowance. (which does make their payload figures appear better than they really are, and make tototas look low in comparison)

Maybe it is just semantics, and me being picky, but I did get burnt by it......so yes I got a little annoyed (also with myself for not understanding it before overloading the car with bar/winch etc)
I will always emphasise to anyone to understand any vehicles limitations before they buy it and a van....

Discos on the other hand do not have the towball weight removed from the GVM. At any weight right up to GVM the towball is always 350kg. Once GVM is reached, then it must reduce to 250kg. They also start their weights as 90% of Kerb - mostly full tank - but with a 75kg driver included.

I could never find the specifics of how Jeep handle it - it might be in the handbook - but I understood it to be along the same lines as the Disco, but with other provisos (WDH over a certain weight, speed restriction). I stand to be corrected.

Thanks StrayDingo, bit of an eye opener. Would be nice if there was some consistency, but then again it would be nice if there weren't states and territories and that ain't going to happen either.

I had a look at the basic specs for the discovery 4 and I would have found it misleading were it not for having read your explanation beforehand. For instance they say the payload includes a 75kg driver. What does that mean!

Also, I can't find where it says te towball allowance is 350kg up until hitting the GVM, but as I said I've only looked at the basic specs sheet. Seems strange though that they'd say you can hit your GVM and then still put 250kgs on the towball, but if that's what they say then that's what they say. If it were me I'd never travel on the GVM, I'd travel 1 kg below it so I could still have a towball of 350kg!

Anyway, I love the discos. If only I had the money...but if i did the only thing that might hold me back would be reliability concerns and service centre numbers. I don't know whether there is actually anything to be concerned about here since I haven't had the money to bother doing the research, but I assume there's no where near as many service centres and parts as there are for nissans and especially Toyotas.

http://www.landrover.com/au/en/lr/discovery-4/explore/sdv6-hse/

 

[straydingo]

They don't specify the weight as Tare or Kerb - they just say 'weight from 2570kg*' and then the GVM as 3240. As the asterik in the 'weight from' box is noted as being the 90% fluids and 75kg driver, that leaves 670kg as real life payload - every vehicle has to have a driver and will have fuel - why pretend they won't. (unfortunately the 75kg driver is a bit light on to be me ) The 350kg/250kg towball limit is in the handbook. I do not want my vehicle at GVM limit anyway - thats why I'm so pedantic on the weights and limits etc, so I know where I'm at. Its not just the GVM, but the CVM and the axle loads......let alone just simply handling.
But yes a consistent approach to all manufacturers would be nice, but then it could be argued for compulsory weigh-ins after any mods etc too.......messy

 

[Moxley23]

They don't specify the weight as Tare or Kerb - they just say 'weight from 2570kg*' and then the GVM as 3240. As the asterik in the 'weight from' box is noted as being the 90% fluids and 75kg driver, that leaves 670kg as real life payload - every vehicle has to have a driver and will have fuel - why pretend they won't. (unfortunately the 75kg driver is a bit light on to be me ) The 350kg/250kg towball limit is in the handbook. I do not want my vehicle at GVM limit anyway - thats why I'm so pedantic on the weights and limits etc, so I know where I'm at. Its not just the GVM, but the CVM and the axle loads......let alone just simply handling.
But yes a consistent approach to all manufacturers would be nice, but then it could be argued for compulsory weigh-ins after any mods etc too.......messy

Thanks SD. It's an interesting and important issue. I've learned so much since buying my 4wd and getting into this game. I never realised I'd like it so much for one.

I'll be able to make sure I stay under GVM with my Pathfinder and eventual Expanda, but I will have to be careful about what mods I now do - particularly as my kids get older (heavier). I don't think I can reduce my weight much below 100kgs, so no savings to be had there!

I really do wonder how many people are ignorant of this issue, particularly people towing decent sized vans with ford falcons. They seem to be the worst offenders. I also think there may be a few 80 series and 100 series Landcruisers out there with heaps of mods which whilst towing might be very close to or over the GVM limit. That said, I'd feel much safer towing with a heavily modified Landcruiser than with any Sedan.

 

[mfexpanda]

The new one does not extend down and just protrudes out the back. As a result the towbar does not clear the bumper bar. Hence a hole is cut out in the bumper bar to allow the towbar to protrude out the back of the car.

Had a look at the wifes pathie with a hayman reese and its just as you explaned bumper cut