Electrical New batteries needed... Any tips
- Thread starter scottbec
- Start date
@yabbietol Ventilation is critical of course, and hopefully they are providing a lot of it!. At the end of the day you can provide a dedicated breather tube and as much ventilation as you like, but the risk is always there. I suppose it depends on how you assess that risk. As I said, plenty of people fit them internally - their choice. Some do it on a recommendation, others do it because of price, others simply replace like for like what was in the van/vehicle prior. From a battery manufacturers point of view we would never recommend fitment of anything other than a VRLA battery in these applications.
I look at it two ways. Firstly the term "Maintenance Free" is a great marketing job. Sure Calcium/Calcium technology batteries by virtue of their design use less electrolyte in comparison to a lead antimony battery, and are supposedly filled to last the "life" of the battery. But, they still will consume electrolyte over time, how much will depends on the conditions they operate in and under. So a good marketing story no doubt, but not strictly true. Explosions are rare, but the risk is there.
Secondly, in terms of gassing, regardless of how good your ventilation is the potential still exists for fumes to accumulate within the van. Depending on how good the ventilation is, and on other factors regarding the batteries use, the risk of fumes accumulating varies. To me though, it is not a risk I would take (perhaps I have a sensitive nose lol), and hence why I would not recommend anyone to fit a non VRLA type battery internally in the van.
Totally different story if fitted externally.
You can draw parallels to the use of VRLA batteries in motor vehicles, typically European, where the battery is located within the passenger compartment of the vehicle. They use this technology for a few reasons - cost isn't one! - but the recombinant design that converts the gas produced back into a liquid is. The use of lead acid batteries in these applications is not recommended, and while you would be able to provide better ventilation in a van situation, I would use this application as a good guide as to what type of battery to fit internally in a van.
But again, each to their own.
how long are your batteries lasting? I think you problem is your solar. I have 200amp of lithium and 360w of solar. With partly cloudy weather they wont fully charge on a sunny day there done by lunchtime. That has been running a 215l waeco, diesel heater, leds inside, pod coffee machine and toaster.
I think your fridge uses 60w an hour? So on a perfect day if you luckly you have your fridge running off one panel and the other charging the battery from what the fridge has used that night, any other load or anything less than a nice cool full sunny day and your going backwards.
I think your fridge uses 60w an hour? So on a perfect day if you luckly you have your fridge running off one panel and the other charging the battery from what the fridge has used that night, any other load or anything less than a nice cool full sunny day and your going backwards.
Last edited:
I think we may be saying the same thing I hope this clarifies it.
Firstly sealed lead acid battery is not necessarily an AGM battery, but an AGM battery is a sealed lead acid. Almost all Deep cycle batteries sold and installed in Australia in caravans are sealed deep cycle lead acid, a very few are Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM). Even fewer Lithium technology. So except for Lithium caravan batteries should be ventilated.
So I think the problem above is misunderstanding of terminology. I would not advocate and do not think any van manufacturer would install a fully open vented conventional lead acid battery in a caravan, due to the risk of acid spill and the need for much more maintenance. These open type of batteries are becoming less common even in cars. However, in Australia all lead acid batteries must be ventilated to prevent hydrogen gas build up during charging, this includes sealed lead acid, sometimes called Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA) and Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries.
VRLA are simply sealed lead acid batteries that have valves to release the hydrogen they liberate while being charged. All lead acid batteries release hydrogen when charged and VRLA and AGM do this via pressure relief valves which do not release hydrogen until between 2 psi to 50psi gas pressure is reached depending on application and design.
AGM batteries are the next level of technology above sealed lead acid (VRLA) they were designed originally for military applications hence their robustness, but they still are a lead acid battery which is sealed (with vents) and rely on a very fine fibreglass mat to hold the electrolyte, they can be sealed because they have excess electrolyte proportionally compared to vented lead acid. However, they are not completely sealed, they still release hydrogen. Note, AGM also do not like rapid discharge, hence not often used as starter or cranking batteries, but are great for storage.
Behave yourself .... I not sure you 30mins on the bench is up yet. Anyway, all the detail is posted on another forum
Didn't you say you would at a southern NSW town in Jan ????? I may have to adjust the schedule so I can hear this story by the campfire, sure to be some laughs.........
We'll be a lot closer than southern NSW !!!Didn't you say you would at a southern NSW town in Jan ????? I may have to adjust the schedule so I can hear this story by the campfire, sure to be some laughs.........
Since you lot Mozzed me, I am now the proud owner of a 105amp AGM battery, ( would have gone a 120 but didn't have the extra $50) set the van up today to sort out all the gear in preparation of heading off next week, now I had checked the electrical stuff when I got back last time about 5 weeks ago, all was good..............check out battery compartment and find the battery has spat crap into the bottom of it's box, so stuff it headed up town and Forbes batteries had a special on so I got a new unit, AGM this time and the old lead acid can run the ride on, it will just fit.
Feel much better now anyway, was thinking of fitting a small fan to allow better air flow, no need now.
Feel much better now anyway, was thinking of fitting a small fan to allow better air flow, no need now.
You'll just have to go bed half an hour earlier. But if you start on the tonic half an hour earlier too, it won't matter, and you'll be $50 in front.
Where you off to?
If I hadn't paid some deposit we probably wouldn't be going I think, washing machine not draining and a bit noisy, open her up and yucky, bits of alloy casing littered in pump and elsewhere, it's a smashed gearbox thingy..............new battery, now new washing machine and the other week I put new springs on Jeep........................bugger it, get more tonic and a nice week at Red Rock then further down the coast as the weeks progress and it will seem like a distant memory.
@yabbietol yes the terminology can get confusing - it took me a while of working in the battery industry to truly understand.
To clarify, AGM batteries are a form of sealed lead acid battery. More specifically, they are a form of Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA) battery. VRLA batteries can typically be AGM or Gel. AGM is not the next level above VRLA, they are a VRLA. You may hear different stories from different sources, however take it from me, the are a form of VRLA. We manufacture them.
The valve on a VRLA battery (either AGM or Gel) is not designed to vent unless under extreme circumstances. The internal design of a VRLA battery is such that the hydrogen generated is reconstituted back into a liquid form - therefore making them the only true, non-venting, fully maintenance free batteries available on the market. VRLA batteries in either form can be fitted at any angle, in confined, unventilated spaces. They are the only battery (aside from Lithium) that can be.
Wet flooded batteries (the ones with the screw caps for maintenance) will vent, and are old hat. Having said that, the "old school" tech in these batteries, with super thick, full framed grids, is still hard to beat.
A sealed lead acid battery (non-VRLA) has a vent that is purely a breather. It emits the gas. There is no internal valving to recombine the gas back to a liquid form. By virtue of their calcium/calcium design they vent less than a lead antimony battery.
Sealed lead acid deep cycle batteries are still the most common fitment in cycling applications. However, you would be very surprised at the volume of cycling VRLA (AGM/Gel) batteries sold in this country. The numbers are quite astounding. Similarly, wet flooded (maintainable) deep cycle batteries are still common - not in caravans, but in other applications.
I would also challenge anybody to highlight an instance of venting from a true VRLA battery. Again, the circumstances would be extreme, and the battery would likely explode beforehand. With regards to the internal matts, the electrolyte in an AGM battery is actually "suspended" in a sponge like separator, which also has the added benefit of prolonging battery life by resisting the shedding of active material within the battery. Most use a fibreglass type matting - inferior brands don't.
In terms of discharge, yes you are correct, and AGM batteries require specific charge patterns, especially if deeply discharged. But to say they do not like rapid discharge is not strictly true. AGM batteries are used by Euro car manufacturers in starting applications, mainly for vehicles with start stop technology. This type of technology exposes a battery to higher rates of discharge than any other common application, and also requires a battery that can handle rapid re-charge. An AGM designed for cranking can do both. One thing AGM batteries do not like is heat. So it would be wise not to fit one under bonnet as secondary battery, and if you must keep it away from manifolds/exhaust systems.
To clarify, AGM batteries are a form of sealed lead acid battery. More specifically, they are a form of Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA) battery. VRLA batteries can typically be AGM or Gel. AGM is not the next level above VRLA, they are a VRLA. You may hear different stories from different sources, however take it from me, the are a form of VRLA. We manufacture them.
The valve on a VRLA battery (either AGM or Gel) is not designed to vent unless under extreme circumstances. The internal design of a VRLA battery is such that the hydrogen generated is reconstituted back into a liquid form - therefore making them the only true, non-venting, fully maintenance free batteries available on the market. VRLA batteries in either form can be fitted at any angle, in confined, unventilated spaces. They are the only battery (aside from Lithium) that can be.
Wet flooded batteries (the ones with the screw caps for maintenance) will vent, and are old hat. Having said that, the "old school" tech in these batteries, with super thick, full framed grids, is still hard to beat.
A sealed lead acid battery (non-VRLA) has a vent that is purely a breather. It emits the gas. There is no internal valving to recombine the gas back to a liquid form. By virtue of their calcium/calcium design they vent less than a lead antimony battery.
Sealed lead acid deep cycle batteries are still the most common fitment in cycling applications. However, you would be very surprised at the volume of cycling VRLA (AGM/Gel) batteries sold in this country. The numbers are quite astounding. Similarly, wet flooded (maintainable) deep cycle batteries are still common - not in caravans, but in other applications.
I would also challenge anybody to highlight an instance of venting from a true VRLA battery. Again, the circumstances would be extreme, and the battery would likely explode beforehand. With regards to the internal matts, the electrolyte in an AGM battery is actually "suspended" in a sponge like separator, which also has the added benefit of prolonging battery life by resisting the shedding of active material within the battery. Most use a fibreglass type matting - inferior brands don't.
In terms of discharge, yes you are correct, and AGM batteries require specific charge patterns, especially if deeply discharged. But to say they do not like rapid discharge is not strictly true. AGM batteries are used by Euro car manufacturers in starting applications, mainly for vehicles with start stop technology. This type of technology exposes a battery to higher rates of discharge than any other common application, and also requires a battery that can handle rapid re-charge. An AGM designed for cranking can do both. One thing AGM batteries do not like is heat. So it would be wise not to fit one under bonnet as secondary battery, and if you must keep it away from manifolds/exhaust systems.
I spotted this battery 4 sales at Supercheap..........what do you think is it suitable for the van.
The sale ends tomorrow.
The sale ends tomorrow.
Love the chatter about batteries and food and beer......
@cruzadriver this would not be suitable if mounted inside the van. It is not a VRLA technology battery and will vent during normal operation
I can't say that I've every heard of them having that effect on tonneau covers @cruza driver
I suppose it would be possible for this to occur though over a long period of time. Unlikely in my opinion, having said that I have never researched this though.
I suppose it would be possible for this to occur though over a long period of time. Unlikely in my opinion, having said that I have never researched this though.
I too have just put a new battery in ( AGM ) , and it charges via the setec when plugged to 240V.
A question i have is , i have just purchased a portable solar panel kit with regulator, can i put the alligator clips straight too the battery with 30 amp fuse when the setec is charging the battery from 240V ?
think i will just run blk and red wire from battery terminals via fuse to anderson on side of van, will mainly plug solar into this when off grid, but just ask the question, if it was to be plugged in whilst van on 240V at a park. ?
A question i have is , i have just purchased a portable solar panel kit with regulator, can i put the alligator clips straight too the battery with 30 amp fuse when the setec is charging the battery from 240V ?
think i will just run blk and red wire from battery terminals via fuse to anderson on side of van, will mainly plug solar into this when off grid, but just ask the question, if it was to be plugged in whilst van on 240V at a park. ?
