16' Series Help/Advice re my Expanda weights

Dozer54

New Member
Jul 8, 2019
3
3
3
Brisbane
Hello, I recently purchased a second hand Jayco Expanda (2012 Expanda Outback 16.49.3HL - single axle). I am keen to ensure I keep the weight within all legal limits to avoid any safety, insurance issues etc..

I understand all of the differences between TARE, GTM & ATM and the weights plated on my van are as follows;

Tare: 1699
GTM: 1905
ATM: 2074
Axle group load capacity: 2000

However, the confusion I have that I am hoping for advice on is....

1) My axle load capacity is 2000 which is below the actual ATM so would I be right in saying that the total weight of the laden trailer actually shouldn't exceed 2000 (axle group load capacity) or the 2074 (ATM), I would have thought ATM cannot exceed Axle group load capacity. Or is it possible that axle group load capacity does not actually include the weight of the axle/ wheels?

2) I weighed my van on a weighbridge with no personal belongings on board just what was on the van when I purchased it... which was, 2x full 9kg gas bottles, tv, wind up ariel, 110ltr fridge, air-con, microwave, 2 mattresses, awning, reich auto mover installed, 2 x 82ltr water tanks (near empty), spare tyre, & table. The ATM upon weigh bridge check was 1920kg. So basically this only leaves me with 154kg before I hit the maximum ATM. If I fill the 2 water tanks to capacity I basically have no weight left for any personal belongings !

3) Is the axle group load capacity the maximum weight that should be on the axle at all times OR only when being towed? If at all times then 1 x 80kg person would not be able to enter the van without it going over the axle group load capacity!

Any suggestions ? Can I somehow get it inspected and all of the weights increased so that I can actually put some stuff in the van ?
Another point for everyone to consider when looking at increasing ATM capacity.
Case study - my son's 2009 Expanda Outback model 16.493 with compliance plated ATM of 2016kg, Van was supplied with Alko 8 leaf 60mm x 7mm rated at 1750 kg per pair on the single axle. Both had sagged considerably and one was down to the bump stops. We contacted Jayco with vin and chassis number and they advised that the van was fitted with 9 leaf springs - not so!!! 9 leaf springs were not readily available so 10 leaf springs (2500kg) were installed (with a modified shock absorber mount to cater for the extra downstroke travel of the extra 2 leaves). Van now travels well behind his MUX and should have had heavier springs from day 1 as ATM less ball weight meant springs were under capacity from factory. We will go through the reclassification process soon - but only a few hundred kg is likely to be the allowable increase due to the axle load of 2000 kg being the constraint.
 

Attachments

  • eyetoeyeshacklesprings-60x7-outback.jpg
    eyetoeyeshacklesprings-60x7-outback.jpg
    239.3 KB · Views: 202

BJM

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2018
485
549
93
Yamba
Maybe be start off with a weighbridge weight check to start with.The number of van owners I have spoken to in the last year who have been surprised that the empty plated weight is not what it should be when weighed.Also seems to be alot of descrepancies between factory towball weights as on the plate and when personally weighed ,my 17.55 a good example.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drover

pcutt

New Member
Jan 30, 2022
8
4
3
Perth
Just found this thread following a trip to the public weighbridge in Fremantle port. Really helpful guy there did car, tow ball and van weights all for $38! Got home and looked into the results and just can’t believe the van tare weight now, it does indeed seem to be mythical. I estimate (fairly conservatively) I have about 200kg of additional weight in the van and yet my weighbridge results suggest I have around 340kg in the van. Looking online I can see specs for the same model that differ from my plate. Anyone else got a 2015 17.56-1 tourer and able to let me know the tare and ATM. Mine are 1701kg and 2101kg. I’m wondering if the plate is incorrect.
 

mikerezny

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2016
1,630
2,728
113
Mount Waverley, VIC
Just found this thread following a trip to the public weighbridge in Fremantle port. Really helpful guy there did car, tow ball and van weights all for $38! Got home and looked into the results and just can’t believe the van tare weight now, it does indeed seem to be mythical. I estimate (fairly conservatively) I have about 200kg of additional weight in the van and yet my weighbridge results suggest I have around 340kg in the van. Looking online I can see specs for the same model that differ from my plate. Anyone else got a 2015 17.56-1 tourer and able to let me know the tare and ATM. Mine are 1701kg and 2101kg. I’m wondering if the plate is incorrect.
The Tare stamped on the plate is the weight of the van when it left the Jayco factory. It will include any extras that were fitted at the factory prior to it being weighed. Jayco have their own scales and each van is individually weighed. I have seen the scales and the process they use when I did the factory tour 6 years ago. A copy of the weighbridge docket is also included in the handover folder. Note that the van is delivered without gas in the cylinders or water in any of the water tanks. I am quite confident that, for Jayco vans, the Tare stamped on the plate is most likely correct.

After the van is delivered to the dealer, any extras fitted by the dealer will NOT be included in the Tare weight and will need to be taken from the load allowance.
When I bought my Penguin, I stipulated that NO extras were to be fitted by the dealer and they obliged. On handover I sighted the Jayco build order which showed all the extras I ordered were on the factory build order.
The dealer filled the gas cylinder and filled the water tank for us prior to handover. That is a total of 9kg gas plus 80kg of water. So the van was already 89kg heavier than Tare. I have a 300kg load allowance, thus only 211kg (300kg - 89kg) left for our use.

If a van was bought second hand ANY extras fitted by the earlier owners will also need to be taken from the load allowance.

So, the total load will consist of what you have added PLUS whatever the previous owners have added PLUS whatever the dealer installed prior to handover PLUS gas in the cylinders PLUS water in the water tanks. In your van that cannot exceed 400kg.

The most common mistake is for people to try to save a few pennies and buy extras themselves after the van is delivered: aircon, battery, awnings, solar panels. Unfortunately these are heavy items and will quickly eat into the load allowance.

Mike
 

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,723
19,450
113
QLD
As I have said many times Tare is mythical as it just vanishes, the only fixed weight on the plate is ATM, the GTM will change in line with the tow ball weight, the max GTM is stamped as axle load on most vans and the tow ball has a max which can vary depending on van size, the tow ball weight stamped on the plate is very much like the Tare.................... @mikerezny 's description covered it well, every little addition will add to the weight, the best idea is to have your van loaded with its usual gear which stays in the van and weigh it, that gives you a base line for how much food, clothes etc you can load, of course it then needs to balance so you don't blow the ball or weight on the wheels........... Big Mal is 12 years old and like its owner it has crept up the scales, so as I add an extra panel something has to stay at home, it packs very lean now compared to years back, a new AC a few years back added 9kgs even changing tyres can add a few ..............

It also applies to your tug, the payload allowed usually isn't very much when you subtract the ball weight (actual) then if you add the extras you added to the vehicle, roof rack, bars, fridge extra battery you can find you have used your payload before anyone has sat in the seats, that 80lt long range tank can eat 100kgs.....
 

pcutt

New Member
Jan 30, 2022
8
4
3
Perth
Thanks for the replies. Just got off the phone to Midland Trailers in Perth who suggested they can do an ATM upgrade following an inspection. The Axle weight group is 800kg more than the ATM so there’s a lot of extra capacity, assuming other components are rated high enough, which it seems like they are. I only really need about 150kg more at most to take food and water so all should be good. I’ve now got the tug weight from the weighbridge, which is really useful as I was previously estimating the weights of bull bars, tow bar, canopy, roof rack etc. my estimates were about 40kg under.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drover

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,723
19,450
113
QLD
Thats the way, bring the vans ATM up as far as possible, even if its over the tugs tow cap thats only a problem if the actual weight is over not what is stamped on a plate..............