Greetings From ColinM

[Drover]

A good rule of thumb is whatever it says it can tow deduct 500kg then you have room in the tug for 2 or 3 bums and some gear...if you towed the max then you would be by yourself and half a tank with no gear.

Took a VW for test drive, was very nice but looked under the bonnet and thought a Tim the Toolman tricked up lawn mower engine... Dual turbo's just worry me....

 

[Crusty181]

Hey @DRW - To the best of my knowledge and I'm still getting my head around "The Figures" - the TDI 2L Amarok with 3,000 Kg for a 2,800 Kg van would not be ideal - that's why part of the plan is to trade up to the V6 with 3500 (which is what I wanted to do before the van anyway - but don't tell the wife )

Doesnt the Amarok have some weird behaviour modification stuff going with its towing capacity and speed limitations. My Nissan had an oddball formula happening which meant you couldnt tow or carry to capacity at the same time.

Long term travel like your (read we) and working toward, i think requires a significant buffer between car capacity and van weight, unless the plan is to update the car every handful of years

 

[Crusty181]

Hey @Crusty181 I fully understand the points you are making (if you could be more direct it would help )its a bit like caravan reviews they all manage 10 out of 10
I guess the point i was trying to make (as poorly as I did) was @ColinM has a 2litre Amarok which has a towing capacity of 3,000kg, the WillowRV has a ATM of 2,800kg so the Amarok would do it okay. The second point was by watching videos like the ones I suggested was to show its more than possible to live comfortably in a 19'6" van as these guys do as a family of 5. It also shows some wonderful places to visit and even though its a paid job for them some tips are good for beginners, now don't let me start on the NEWS channels this really is paid for properganda

i with you on size, Im pretty confident our next van will be smaller than the 20ft we currently have.

 

[Drover]

i with you on size, Im pretty confident our next van will be smaller than the 20ft we currently have.

I look at Big Mal all 8.8mts parked beside the shed and think I really would like a smaller rig, it was supposed to be an 18ft job but someone wanted, more room between bed and dining, walk around bed, bigger ensuite suddenly 18 is 22 ..............................the whole rig is 14.5mts when coupled up but when I'm parked beside the Gwydir River for a week sitting back it doesn't seem that big and only be a little bit longer with a 1500 RAM doing the towing.

 

[Crusty181]

I look at Big Mal all 8.8mts parked beside the shed and think I really would like a smaller rig, it was supposed to be an 18ft job but someone wanted, more room between bed and dining, walk around bed, bigger ensuite suddenly 18 is 22 ..............................the whole rig is 14.5mts when coupled up but when I'm parked beside the Gwydir River for a week sitting back it doesn't seem that big and only be a little bit longer with a 1500 RAM doing the towing.

Don't forget you cant both have a ham sandwich in the Ram at the same time or you'll be overloaded

 

[ColinM]

A good rule of thumb is whatever it says it can tow deduct 500kg then you have room in the tug for 2 or 3 bums and some gear...if you towed the max then you would be by yourself and half a tank with no gear.

Agreed - good rule of thumb - the third bum will (per decree from SWMBO) will be the cat - she bought the harness and put it on our hapless and very unimpressed Rusty - wife now has a three year plan to break the harness in!

Took a VW for test drive, was very nice but looked under the bonnet and thought a Tim the Toolman tricked up lawn mower engine... Dual turbo's just worry me....

Ha Ha - yup, people either love or or otherwise. I love up, especially after the re-mapping of the chip - DPF intact of course.

Doesnt the Amarok have some weird behaviour modification stuff going with its towing capacity and speed limitations. My Nissan had an oddball formula happening which meant you couldnt tow or carry to capacity at the same time./QUOTE]

@Crusty181 -

Don't know anything about that other than VWA precludes the use of weight levelers.

Long term travel like your (read we) and working toward, i think requires a significant buffer between car capacity and van weight, unless the plan is to update the car every handful of years

Agreed and no, changing tugs every few years would be nice - but not on the radar unless we win lotto.

Don't forget you cant both have a ham sandwich in the Ram at the same time or you'll be overloaded

@Crusty181

- you crack me up Crusty!

 

[Drover]

Don't forget you cant both have a ham sandwich in the Ram at the same time or you'll be overloaded

Its actually only a little bit bigger than my Ute and has a carry cap a tad more than mine with a tub BUT IT DOES HAVE A 5.7 V8 and that makes all the difference.

I think fitting a WDH to a VW makes sure they don't get overloaded and drag their bottom on the road and ensures you throw some gear out when the front lifts off OR I have heard the WDH could rip the bum off them.....................

 

[ColinM]

...

I think fitting a WDH to a VW makes sure they don't get overloaded and drag their bottom on the road and ensures you throw some gear out when the front lifts off OR I have heard the WDH could rip the bum off them.....................

Actually Drover - it's an issue apparently with VWA "you can’t transfer weight to the front axle with a Weight Distribution hitch on the Amarok -- Volkswagen does not permit the use of a WDH at all, saying that the towbar was not designed for it. " Not sure about after market towbars.

 

[Drover]

With a WDH the stress is applied to the tow bar mounts in the opposite direction to when just towing (mostly)and some monoqoue chassis can fail.

 

[ColinM]

With a WDH the stress is applied to the tow bar mounts in the opposite direction to when just towing (mostly)and some monoqoue chassis can fail.

That would be true if the Amarok was moneque.

 

[Crusty181]

Actually Drover - it's an issue apparently with VWA "you can’t transfer weight to the front axle with a Weight Distribution hitch on the Amarok -- Volkswagen does not permit the use of a WDH at all, saying that the towbar was not designed for it. " Not sure about after market towbars.

I agree with Volkswagen ... I dont like the WDHs

 

[Drover]

That would be true if the Amarok was moneque - but like all proper 4WDs they have a ladder frame chasis.

Not getting into an argument but that is really an oxymoron ................. like a Prado is a true FWD...lol,lol,lol......and a Jeep isn't ...lol,,lol.......

 

[Crusty181]

Doesnt the Amarok have some weird behavior modification stuff going with its towing capacity and speed limitations. My Nissan had an oddball formula happening which meant you couldn't tow or carry to capacity at the same time.

Ok, did the Amarok Google search. With the recent tow capacity upgrade from 3t to 3.5t, the max towball load remains locked at 300kg (most veh max towball load is 10% of tow capacity e 3.5t = 350kg. The magical 10% is also the accepted starting point in trailer specs, ie ball download mass 10% of the trailers ATM). So, in theory, a loaded 3.5t van with sub-300kg towball mass could well be too light on the towball, which in turn risks trailer instability. Additional paper theory would suggest any van with a sub 300kg towball mass should inturn be sub 3t in ATM

When towing VW also "recommends" max speed 80kph under 3.3t, but limit tow speed to 80kph over 3.3t. Nissan has this thing where the closer your car weight approaches the GVM, the capacity of the towball mass starts scaling down .... according to a sticker on the door frame. My Nissan popped into a parallel time dimension when I had the GVM upgraded because .... does that make it better or does that make it worse, hmmmmm. No-one knew, including Nissan

 

[ColinM]

I agree with Volkswagen ... I dont like the WDHs

@Crusty181 - Is that because you're advocating that these shouldn't be used to compensate for uneven loaded weight balance Crusty?

Not getting into an argument but that is really an oxymoron ................. like a Prado is a true FWD...lol,lol,lol......and a Jeep isn't ...lol,,lol.......

@Drover - Yup I deserved that - in hindsight that comment was unfair and inappropriate - withdrawn - with my apologies Drover.

Ok, did the Amarok Google search. With the recent tow capacity upgrade from 3t to 3.5t, the max towball load remains locked at 300kg (most veh max towball load is 10% of tow capacity e 3.5t = 350kg. The magical 10% is also the accepted starting point in trailer specs, ie ball download mass 10% of the trailers ATM). So, in theory, a loaded 3.5t van with sub-300kg towball mass could well be too light on the towball, which in turn risks trailer instability. Additional paper theory would suggest any van with a sub 300kg towball mass should inturn be sub 3t in ATM

When towing VW also "recommends" max speed 80kph under 3.3t, but limit tow speed to 80kph over 3.3t. Nissan has this thing where the closer your car weight approaches the GVM, the capacity of the towball mass starts scaling down .... according to a sticker on the door frame. My Nissan popped into a parallel time dimension when I had the GVM upgraded because .... does that make it better or does that make it worse, hmmmmm. No-one knew, including Nissan

@Crusty181 - Really appreciate your investment in that Crusty - maybe it's because it's early in the morning, but I've read that five times and not getting anything to sink in.

 

[Crusty181]

@Crusty181 - Is that because you're advocating that these shouldn't be used to compensate for uneven loaded weight balance Crusty?

A few manufacturers caution away from WDHs, Nissan was one of them. I do think it's a bandaid measure for a bigger issue, which allows cars and particularly suspension not designed or built to cope with weights asked of it. It also puts extraordinary pressure on components that are neither designed not tested to deal with it. When Hayman Reese is prepared to sell me a WDH for a vehicle which the manufacturer says not to .... that speak volumes to me.

@Crusty181 - Really appreciate your investment in that Crusty - maybe it's because it's early in the morning, but I've read that five times and not getting anything to sink in.

Typically I find on the 6th attempt, and it will all fall into place

 

[ColinM]

A few manufacturers caution away from WDHs, Nissan was one of them. I do think it's a bandaid measure for a bigger issue, which allows cars and particularly suspension not designed or built to cope with weights asked of it. It also puts extraordinary pressure on components that are neither designed not tested to deal with it. When Hayman Reese is prepared to sell me a WDH for a vehicle which the manufacturer says not to .... that speak volumes to me.

Fair enough

Typically I find on the 6th attempt, and it will all fall into place

LOL!

 

[ColinM]

Doesnt the Amarok have some weird behaviour modification stuff going with its towing capacity and speed limitations. My Nissan had an oddball formula happening which meant you couldnt tow or carry to capacity at the same time.

Long term travel like your (read we) and working toward, i think requires a significant buffer between car capacity and van weight, unless the plan is to update the car every handful of years

@Crusty181 - Apologies, I don't think I responded to this.

...you couldnt tow or carry to capacity at the same time.

- I think you may be referring to the "GCM Trap" - which I found out about thanks to this link in this very helpful post by @Drover by RV Books - in particular, the disparity between the addition of the Amarok's maximum GVM and Maximum Braked Towing Capacity (6580Kg) vs the GCM which is 6000Kg - a disparity of 580Kg. Seems an issue across many if not all of the 4WD utes.

 

[Drover]

Sometimes Crusty Con has sage advice, took years before he realized the Navara wasn't the God Vehicle, he's improved but will soon find the Mine Truck to be nearly but not quite..... I will sit in wait....
And to your post at same time the weight loss applies to all vehicles not just VeeDubs.

 

[Crusty181]

@Crusty181 - Apologies, I don't think I responded to this. - I think you may be referring to the "GCM Trap" - which I found out about thanks to this link in this very helpful post by @Drover by RV Books - in particular, the disparity between the addition of the Amarok's maximum GVM and Maximum Braked Towing Capacity (6580Kg) vs the GCM which is 6000Kg - a disparity of 580Kg. Seems an issue across many if not all of the 4WD utes.

The Amarok has that other added bonus with max ball weight. You'll need to mindful of the vehicles tow capacity because its max tow mass is limited to 300kg. In good old Oz the recommended'ish trailer ball weight is 10% of the trailer ATM. The Amarok is rated to tow 3.5t, and a 3.5t trailer should have a 350kg towball mass (being 10% of the trailers ATM) , 50kg more than the Amarok is rated for. The Amarok's 300kg max tow mass limit strongly suggesting the cars more suited to a sub 3t trailer.

I'm starting to confuse myself now ... way too many occurrences of the word "mass" for an atheist to be comfortable without looking behind

 

[Crusty181]

Sometimes Crusty Con has sage advice, took years before he realized the Navara wasn't the God Vehicle, he's improved but will soon find the Mine Truck to be nearly but not quite..... I will sit in wait....
And to your post at same time the weight loss applies to all vehicles not just VeeDubs.

The mighty Navara was a truly awesome vehicle ... some say the most underrated car built. That engineering marvel dragged our Behemoth for years for over 70k km over all sorts of horrible terrain, and the only time it hesitated ..... was at the end of your street