Yep, that's another one I was thinking of. Incredibly versatile.
Why couldn't he get closer? From what I've seen, they're only limited by height compared other cars. Maybe a tad longer too.
General Tow Vehicle Question
- Thread starter ash99
- Start date
Yep, that's another one I was thinking of. Incredibly versatile.
Why couldn't he get closer? From what I've seen, they're only limited by height compared other cars. Maybe a tad longer too.
Yep height was the issue and weight in some cases. Centre of gravity was too high as well on rough ground. He said he nearly rolled it going into one remote area out on the Gibb.
Land rover defender 110?
Just like a navara.............sort of.
sorry
Thats called bullying
We met a family with an Isuzu towing a 17ft Expanda on our trip, and there isnt too many places that didnt go. Every offshoot on the Gibb, including Kalumburu. They also went to the Cape (not via Kumumburu
). It looked like a perfect solution to me, and he certainly wasnt shy about where he took it, in fact I go so far to say that he seem to go out of his way to push it. He mentioned his only issue was deep soft sand where it struggled a bit. Saying that he did plenty of beach driving. We got stuck twice in the soft sands of Cape Peron, (save your nasty Navara jokes
) he didn't so I can only imagine the depth of sand he was talking about.... and there isnt too many places those Isuzu tour buses dont (or cant) seem to go, they seem to pop up everywhere.
We hired a Europcar Isuzu moving truck to move back into the house and it would certainly take a bit of getting used to driving around Oz, but the trade off for weight and storage would be worth it I suspect. The fella we met had a tinnie on the roof of his, and a mass of "stuff" in the back including 2 huge Engels. He carried 400ltrs of water and 300 ltrs of fuel.
Ive got pimped up suspension, and a trade tray. My poor old mountain bike was fork mounted to the roof tray for the entire trip and all up was higher than the Isuzu (without the boat). Although the bike took some decent hits and came home a lot worse for wear I never needed to remove the bike to get in anywhere. Off course I sure I could have found places that height may have stopped me, but I didnt actively avoid anywhere.
If I can just square away the compromise on "car style comfort", I'm 90% sold on the Isuzu.
(PS dont tell the Princess, but at least the driver gets a suspension seat)
Yep... it's that versatility that I love @Crusty181. And whilst I don't particularly want to take the kitchen sink with me, as I am currently on "weight watchers" planning for our trip, it'd be nice to know I could practically throw anything in I'd like.
As for the "car style comfort", I think you'd quickly forget that and the big cabin could be styled and tricked to make it more palatial. I'm thinking the bridge from the Starship Enterprise.
As for the "car style comfort", I think you'd quickly forget that and the big cabin could be styled and tricked to make it more palatial. I'm thinking the bridge from the Starship Enterprise.
It takes a certain style of driving when in the rough in something like the Isuzu or Mog, you certainly need to be more aware than if say in a Cruiser and you don't always follow the normal track left by the smaller 4by's, when I was out in the tanker I tackled a lot of stuff head on and preferred tracks that leant to the left, way scary the other way.
Following the Iveco's they have a fair bit of body roll with a loaded tray. Second hand Isuzu's are pretty pricey and the one's nicely kitted up as tour jobs more than likely have had their fair share of salt water as they don't hold back when cruising the beach.
Following the Iveco's they have a fair bit of body roll with a loaded tray. Second hand Isuzu's are pretty pricey and the one's nicely kitted up as tour jobs more than likely have had their fair share of salt water as they don't hold back when cruising the beach.
Tilt angle for NSW Rural Fire Service bush fire tankers used to 12 deg until one fell over a few years ago, they then changed it to 11 deg. How any one can see or even measure a cross slope of 11 deg vs 12 deg without very sophisticated surveying equipment has puzzled myself and many other tanker drivers. Rural Fire Service tanker drivers in NSW are required to have a Medium Ridged Licence for at least 12 months. They are then allowed take a nationally recognised off road 4WD training, they then are assessed for both response driving and 4WD in heavy (~13t) and light (~7t) tankers. NSW Rural Fire Service Fire tankers (Isuzu and Mitsubishi 4WD dual rear axel) are great 4WD, but cannot handle many cross slopes because as @Drover said above, they will roll over very easily. They are also very hard to bog, but once bogged can be a lot of work to get them out. We have found 6 max tracks and a long handled shovel often can work, but not always.
The proliferation of these truck type 4WDs do concern me with their high centres of gravity, especially if they use some of the tracks with cross slopes that normal 4WD use in very hilly country. They certainly will get into places that many caravans will not get into, but they are not as safe or versatile off road as normal 4WD due to their high centres of gravity. Specialised driver training for using these big 4WD off road should be mandatory, this training should be beyond the normal MR (or LR) drivers licence required for on road driving. I still think these 4WD trucks would be great for touring on road and to remote areas, but people should be aware of their limitations. Organisations like the Army and rural fire services that use these large 4WDs off road spend a lot of resources training their drivers, they still have rollovers despite the training, so anyone thinking of buying one should look at getting some relevant nationally accredited driver training.
Also about 4 years ago we were issued a 2nd hand tanker (5 years old) from Sydney, which had been driven in salty flood water, its air brakes totally failed at a fire and only the skill of the driver managed to pull it up. The incident was investigated, as air brakes should not fail that way, corrosion had totally stuffed them. The skill of the driver in stopping a 13t truck with full crew running down a slope at an active fire was commended. So be also careful of 2nd hand trucks that have been in or near saltwater as @Drover warned above.
PS The above corroded truck was stripped of water tank and other fire fighting kit and then sold at auction. So buyer beware!
The proliferation of these truck type 4WDs do concern me with their high centres of gravity, especially if they use some of the tracks with cross slopes that normal 4WD use in very hilly country. They certainly will get into places that many caravans will not get into, but they are not as safe or versatile off road as normal 4WD due to their high centres of gravity. Specialised driver training for using these big 4WD off road should be mandatory, this training should be beyond the normal MR (or LR) drivers licence required for on road driving. I still think these 4WD trucks would be great for touring on road and to remote areas, but people should be aware of their limitations. Organisations like the Army and rural fire services that use these large 4WDs off road spend a lot of resources training their drivers, they still have rollovers despite the training, so anyone thinking of buying one should look at getting some relevant nationally accredited driver training.
Also about 4 years ago we were issued a 2nd hand tanker (5 years old) from Sydney, which had been driven in salty flood water, its air brakes totally failed at a fire and only the skill of the driver managed to pull it up. The incident was investigated, as air brakes should not fail that way, corrosion had totally stuffed them. The skill of the driver in stopping a 13t truck with full crew running down a slope at an active fire was commended. So be also careful of 2nd hand trucks that have been in or near saltwater as @Drover warned above.
PS The above corroded truck was stripped of water tank and other fire fighting kit and then sold at auction. So buyer beware!
Last edited:
Well said @yabbietol , Any of those vehicles can be terrifying on a wet road and need special attention in most situations, when I learnt the ropes there were no courses or bits of paper but I have trained the odd trainer over the years.....................Bedford Fire trucks, slight slope when the rear let go you hung on till the rig was pointing uphill then floored it and hoped for the best, driver was usually the last one in the vehicle as eveyone else had jumped, driving over a small log on one side would get the blokes on the back leaping into the bush..............................oh great memories.
Our travels would generally be limited to where the truck could go towing a van, so the Victorian high country or similar is probably not going to see much of my Isuzu truck, besides as you wise old men point out understandably not an ideal area to push its capabilities. (although the dude in the pics below wasnt too fussed about the High Country challenge)
As for bias slopes and angry nasty 4x4 country, I suppose every vehicle has its limitations on various terrains as does every driver. For our trip around Oz the Isuzu would have been perfecto
As for bias slopes and angry nasty 4x4 country, I suppose every vehicle has its limitations on various terrains as does every driver. For our trip around Oz the Isuzu would have been perfecto
Be careful @yabbietol, your poking the license endorsement bear .... and that always ends badly. Im already hiding under the couch wearing my tinfoil hat.
Last edited:
I suppose, its like those OKA's
you like them
or
they are as ugly as a hat full of you know whats....................
you like them
or
they are as ugly as a hat full of you know whats....................
I had forgotten how bad the old Bedford fire tankers were; once (~1979) I drove one down the Narrow Neck fire trail to the Megalong valley in the NSW Blue Mtns. As @Drover described they were scary to drive. The Captain (he kept his foot on the gear leaver) and I stayed in the cab while the rest of the crew got out and hung off the back, my instructions were if it popped out of gear, which it did often under load. I was to let the Captain jump out and then steer away from the vertical drop into the valley and run the truck into the cutting wall or a nice solid tree. If I could not get it back in gear or stop I was then to leave the truck. I asked what about the crew and was told by my Captain they will be OK, if they heard it drop out of gear they would drop off the back. The Bedford brakes only worked OK when the truck had no load, once full of water and crew the trucks could only really be slowed up downhill by using low gears. Unfortunately the gear box was a bit ordinary and they had petrol engines which had poor compression braking, as they were petrol they also got fuel vapour locks in hot weather or at fires. A very poor choice for a fire truck in the bush. So therefore, if you do buy a large 4WD please make sure it has effective brakes for its fully loaded weight and diesel compression braking is good and exhaust brakes are a real bonus.
I really like the OKA's great Australian design, still do not know why they are no longer made, it is a real shame. My key point is 4WD trucks are awesome they will go to some really isolated places, but they are not like driving a normal 4WD. They are heavy and have a very high centre of gravity and need to be treated with a lot of caution and respect.
Now going seriously off topic:
I do not resile from the need for specialised training for driving large 4WD, and to open the can of worms even more. I also strongly believe everyone towing anything over 750Kg should have specialised training and their licences endorsed for towing over 750kg. Despite having a lot of 4WD experience and training (Rural Fire Service trained bush fire tanker driver, Medium Ridged truck driving licence, NSW Gov remote area 4WD training, Army 4WD experience and training, etc.). My wife and I did a Tow-Ed course, after we went from 1.2t Avan pop top to a 2.5t full sized caravan. We both agree we should have done it when we first got our little Avan. Tow -ed povides training to a national standard to tow a caravan. Towing training is a great example of the Dunning- Kruger effect in action, the course is great for beginners, but also for older people like me who have "seen it all and wondered what actually happened" the course helps to highlight the unknowns we did not know, and gets rid of bad habits we all develop over time. It cost ~$600 for one day for the two of us with our own caravan and gives us a small discount on our CIL insurance. The key thing it is a nationally recognised competency, that would be easy for all caravan owners to do in their first year of ownership.
Tow-ed is just one company that offers this type of nationally recognised training.
http://www.tow-ed.com.au
4WD driver training from this lot has a good reputation (some of their instructors are local Rural Fire Service tanker drivers and instructors)
http://www.greatdividetours.com.au/driver-training/advanced-4wd-driver-training
http://www.greatdividetours.com.au/heavy-vehicle-off-road-training
You are never to old to learn, a nice definition, but it also applies to high skilled individuals, we cannot know everything about everything.
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate.
Absolutely right @yabbietol , courses like those and similar DECCA courses for coach and heavy vehicle drivers area huge asset, even old hands with new skills......................................Did a skid pan course once, military with AFP so nothing to hang on wall, now that really gets the blood going, not as much as when the bedford gear stick comes out as you change down for a corner.
Forgot about OKA's they were a nice tidy unit I thought, still a few around but I would seriously doubt their towing capacity................What about a slightly used Bushmaster, should be a few of them around one day...........bit thirtsy, noisey and probably a few dents but no need to polish.
Forgot about OKA's they were a nice tidy unit I thought, still a few around but I would seriously doubt their towing capacity................What about a slightly used Bushmaster, should be a few of them around one day...........bit thirtsy, noisey and probably a few dents but no need to polish.
Just looking into doing one of those towing courses. Glad to hear they are worthwhile @yabbietol.
Thoroughly agree....in spades.
We did a similar course years ago; I thought it was too expensive at the time and, after all, we'd been driving 4wds for years....so I resisted and went only to keep the peace.
I learned far more than I ever thought I knew....still don't know enough but at least I have a better idea of the big picture and know enough to be careful and to ask, check, confirm if I'm not sure.
I likened my knowledge to a marshmallow .....some substance, lots of air holes and bits of hardened stuff...all sugar coated...now I'm more of a nougat ...a little bit more substance, fewer but identified air holes and not so sugar coated.
I just need to progress to the solid block of chocolate....I'm working on it.
We did a similar course years ago; I thought it was too expensive at the time and, after all, we'd been driving 4wds for years....so I resisted and went only to keep the peace.
I learned far more than I ever thought I knew....still don't know enough but at least I have a better idea of the big picture and know enough to be careful and to ask, check, confirm if I'm not sure.
I likened my knowledge to a marshmallow .....some substance, lots of air holes and bits of hardened stuff...all sugar coated...now I'm more of a nougat ...a little bit more substance, fewer but identified air holes and not so sugar coated.
I just need to progress to the solid block of chocolate....I'm working on it.
geeeze @yabbietol whats wrong with being able to drive anything with a steering wheel and a motor since I was 5................????
(Tongue in cheek mate, tongue in cheek)
(Tongue in cheek mate, tongue in cheek)
I think this comes under this heading,
My tow vehicle a 09 bt50 with now 200,000 on clock has a slipping clutch,It just towed a 23ft yacht from Noosa to Adelaide after towing the outback expanda across from Albany w.a.
Question is 200,ooo a normal amount of klms for a clutch , have ordered a HD NOT CHEAP AT $2,200
The BT has done a great job and will continue should reach 500k with HD clutch , it also needs timing belts again doesn't take long to clock up 100,000ks
Monday 13 is going to be a expensive day .
it heads back to W.A. in april then back for boat.nearly retired
last harvest Shiraz.
My tow vehicle a 09 bt50 with now 200,000 on clock has a slipping clutch,It just towed a 23ft yacht from Noosa to Adelaide after towing the outback expanda across from Albany w.a.
Question is 200,ooo a normal amount of klms for a clutch , have ordered a HD NOT CHEAP AT $2,200
The BT has done a great job and will continue should reach 500k with HD clutch , it also needs timing belts again doesn't take long to clock up 100,000ks
Monday 13 is going to be a expensive day .
it heads back to W.A. in april then back for boat.nearly retired
last harvest Shiraz.
nah, I totally agree
any sort of driving course is better than none, as you and @Dobbie say, you learn things you didnt know that you didnt know......
I agree with anything over 750kgs should be a sliding scale for training / assessment / course / licence / whatever
(have done many many courses myself for various driving styles and vehicles)
any sort of driving course is better than none, as you and @Dobbie say, you learn things you didnt know that you didnt know......
I agree with anything over 750kgs should be a sliding scale for training / assessment / course / licence / whatever
(have done many many courses myself for various driving styles and vehicles)