With the spring clip idea you can move the switch to various positions to get the best temps for operation, the pipe at the top, one end is hotter than the other same as just placing the switch between the cooling fins gives you a variety of temps, can save the need to swap around with different thermo switchs just try another spot....just use the pipe and fins at the top vent, going down lower is just a lot of stuffng aorund, fans on the top vent mean they are easy to get at as well as being in the most effiecient location............ keeping the Kiss principle means you won't be up the creek at Halls Creek sort of thing..... fans down below may work great but if they fail then they just become a restriction.... I suppose I should fix mine, one day....
17' Series Fridge service/repair Mt Gambier?
- Thread starter Roadhouse
- Start date
Yeah @Drover, that's true about positioning of thermo. However, in my case, not that easy to do. Although my Jayco Penguin did at least have a thin metal baffle properly positioned between inner side of external panel and bottom of condenser, to direct all the air through the condenser fins, there was nothing above fridge under bench, nor was there any proper material to direct hot air out through top vent. Typical poor installation of fridges by Jayco!! As a result, the temperature of the bench top above the fridge ranged from hot at the back of bench to quite warm towards the front edge - nothing to prevent all the hot air from filling that air space and going nowhere. I fixed that problem with reflective insulating paper and metal roof flashing to seal off that area. Then to assist the hot air to more easily escape through the top vent, I made a curved smooth metal plate (more aluminum roof flashing easy to mould into right shape) that fitted behind condenser and up to the top edge of top vent. Unfortunately, that meant there was very little room above the condenser fins to fit thermo. So I found a good spot of round pipe on the condenser (just before the fins) that enabled me to fit clip over and ensure that thermo was flush against pipe. Movement to another position on the fins above condenser was not really feasible, and positioning at the side of fins not as good a position as only measures hot air below, not all around and above. Besides, as all my wiring for fans and thermo had to come up the side of back of fridge and then past my sealing of space above fridge, I only had limited wiring available. So, in the place I now have thermo clipped onto pipe, it is in an easy position to change if/as necessary. Pull clip off pipe, disconnect wires on thermo, undo two screws, replace thermo and re-assemble, mostly all done outside top vent. And at a cost of only $1.00 each, and spares of different temps easy to store, best I could do. Yes, not as easy as just moving thermo, but one has to do what one has to do to make things work better!!! However, on my other absorption fridge, I was not so restricted and was able to fit thermo in any position to suit.
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Yep have noticed very little room around Hobbit vans, friend once did similar vent mod on his eagle after seeing my 14.44 effort , he said it was a mongrel job in that no room I think he just used liquid nails his new panels in place and stuffed roof insulation where he could .......... did come across a fella who just blew foam in all the cavities and stuck some tin foil as a deflector, he said it worked absolutely brilliantly now in summer but never had the heart to ask if he ever wanted to remove it what then, as I cpuld understand his frustration and the effort he had put in....
Fortunately for me, I would only have to remove and refit diversion plate above condenser, otherwise straight forward. Thetford fridges have gas connection at rear and easily accessible for removal. In friend's van, his Dometic fridge has gas connection at top and necessary to slowly pull unit forward to disconnect gas pipe coiled over top of controls. They had a larger than cricket ball size hole in adjoining cupboard/seat wall for gas line and AC power cable access. Friends thought it was great to have "warm" air coming through there when sitting there in winter. They were shocked when I told them how it was affecting the operation of their Dometic fridge, but more than grateful when that, and a few other repairs/mods, improved fridge operation tremendously. Now it gets down to minus 2C in fridge (empty) when only just getting cold before. No gaps/holes in my fridge compartment, sliding in with sides of fridge scraping against the cupboard walls each side, so nothing to block there, just the bad spaces above as mentioned earlier. Gotta win sometimes!!!
Reading above banter tells me I gotta spend some time on this refrigeration efficiency...I had drama with the fridge in the car last trip so had to rely on the van fridge...therefore the wine was not super cold as the van fridge wasn't at it's coldest by the afternoon...usually around 8c
I took on board what you guys have noted before, and tried to make sure any new bottles went in to the fridge over night for chilling...
I took on board what you guys have noted before, and tried to make sure any new bottles went in to the fridge over night for chilling...
Hers is what we do:
The best time to put new stuff in the fridge is early in the morning. The idea is to get the new items as cool as possible in the ambient temperature but get them into the fridge early enough in the morning when it is still cool outside. This gives the fridge the best chance of cooling things down.
1: In the evening is too early, since the items being put in will still be warm from being out all day in the heat.
2: Putting them in late in the morning is too late as, although the items will be at their coolest, the fridge will be struggling from that point on coping with increasing ambient temperature, loss of cooling as the fridge door is opened and items taken in and out, as well as also trying to cool down the new items. The fridge will struggle all day, and will seldom recover.
3: Keep new items going into the fridge in the coolest places available. i.e. Don't keep a carton of beer in the back seat or boot of the car all day, take them out in the evening and throw them in the fridge!
The coolest spots in our Penguin seem to be in the bottom cupboards. We use that space to store items during the day, then take them out just and put them on the bench just before going to bed when the ambient temperature is cooling down. Then put them in the fridge about 5am or so, a few hours before breakfast.
The best time to put new stuff in the fridge is early in the morning. The idea is to get the new items as cool as possible in the ambient temperature but get them into the fridge early enough in the morning when it is still cool outside. This gives the fridge the best chance of cooling things down.
1: In the evening is too early, since the items being put in will still be warm from being out all day in the heat.
2: Putting them in late in the morning is too late as, although the items will be at their coolest, the fridge will be struggling from that point on coping with increasing ambient temperature, loss of cooling as the fridge door is opened and items taken in and out, as well as also trying to cool down the new items. The fridge will struggle all day, and will seldom recover.
3: Keep new items going into the fridge in the coolest places available. i.e. Don't keep a carton of beer in the back seat or boot of the car all day, take them out in the evening and throw them in the fridge!
The coolest spots in our Penguin seem to be in the bottom cupboards. We use that space to store items during the day, then take them out just and put them on the bench just before going to bed when the ambient temperature is cooling down. Then put them in the fridge about 5am or so, a few hours before breakfast.
Thanks Mike...I do try to keep everything as cool as possible that is eventually going to go in the fridge...and I normally keep drinks in the car fridge, but as it was playing up I was in a new place. ..there are definitely some tricks to be learned...
Hi Mike @mikerezny , good to hear from you again. Your idea is certainly different, and not without merit. I have usually been one to replace empty drink with another full one straight away and keep taking from the oldest (and coldest) one in fridge. Wines are always pre-chilled initially and in fridge for at least 24 hours before being consumed. I must admit that that sometimes means taking from back of tug at any time of day! Extra drinks are always in a cardboard box which is covered with a silver tarp which is covered with double thickness blanket, mainly to keep prying eyes from seeing what is there in tug that might meet their wants. The back of tug does have tinted glass, but is closed all the time. The drinks always "seem" to be cooler than ambient at any time. One thing to remember is that night time temperatures in Queensland do not drop as low as you experience in Victoria. While on most days, I guess you could expect minimums of around 10C or lower, here in Brisbane and southern areas nearby, we would be lucky to see any minimums below 20C even at night at the moment. Been hot at 25C at night and humidity at around 50%. And temperatures rise quickly and by 8.00am could be 30C so fridge already working hard especially with fridge and freezer doors opened for juice, milk, yogurt and eggs and bacon for breakfast!!!
No room in our lower cupboards as filled with daily essentials and condiments. And as I like to sleep in a bit and Mrs Boots more so when camping, the idea of getting up so early would be not welcomed. Even if we did, I doubt it would make any difference in the long run. Fortunately, I have my extra 3 way fridge (modified) to do the primary cooling and in fact, it is able to pull down and keep all my drinks colder than the van fridge. Still, something to think about next time I am camping. Cheers
Ok been in the wlderness for a while (on Kangaroo island) so late reply.You are not boring to any of us @Roadhouse . The temps you show are satisfactory considering the conditions. Taking a few hours to pull down from 18C to 5C is normal as Absorption fridges take a while to recover after door has been opened a few times in those sort of conditions. Why did it get so high in the first place?? Not connected to power or to your tug while travelling??? It also depends on the temperature rating of fridge as stated on label inside fridge - "T" indicates that fridge is able to hold internal fridge temperature at 5C or less in an ambient temp of up to 43C. But that does not apply if door is opened and closed a few times!! When the door is opened, all the cold air at the bottom falls out and hot air (at 34C!) takes its place. There are several ways to assist in helping an absorbent fridge work - installing computer fans at the back of fridge to help move the hot air over the pipes at the back and through the condenser (that finned thing) at the top. Also, having a shade over the side of the van on fridge side. Another major problem is improper installation by van manufacturer and you will see that mentioned in the attached. Your fridge mechanic cannot make it work any better if it can pull down fridge temp to 2.5C overnight. So it is NOT your fridge but possibly your unreal expectations and usage that are causing you concern. Have a good read of the whole of the attached and you will get a better understanding of the limitations of any absorption fridge, besides making sure it is level and within tolerances. I will see if I can provide some more information for you tomorrow. Cheers and stay positive. There are plenty on this forum ready to help.
Make Caravan Fridges Work As Claimed
To make caravan fridges work as claimed, and draw less energy, is cheap, simple and easy. Many can be transformed. This article shows how.rvbooks.com.au
Also found a former post of cooling test for my 93l Thetford fridge. Note high ambient temperatures and freezer/fridge temps too. Yours should do just as well if properly installed and possibly a few cheap mods. More info will come I am sure.
- Fridge was 18 degs as wasn’t plugged in.
- fridge is T rated.
- was thinking the klevacool fan kit might be useful. Or variations of…
- good article on the fridge - great explanation of how it all works etc.
In Kangaroo island the temps have been lower and on 240v power it has been working perfectly. Even getting down to -2 on a 4 setting.
Just the gas issue I have to sort out and possibly make it more efficient with some fans inside the fridge and maybe on the vent to pull the hot air out.
Thanks mate.
- heat is not felt far out from the wall so seems to be insulated properly. Flu poking out the wall outside too.
- been working really well on 240v now the days are cooler.
- have seen the shade cloths on the side of the van and thought about it. But in this 34 deg day the side of the van was facing east so wansnt subject to the sun. Friends 6 month old van on next site had fridge wall in the sun and his was maintaining 2 degrees in his dometic 3 way. New fridge and who knows what was in there vs mine as didn’t have a look.
I think it was just unrealistic to being a warm fridge down to good temps on a hottish day.
Anyway seeing another gas mechanic Tuesday and will be able to give him some better intel on what’s happened and hopefully he sort the gas leak issue out. More off grid stuff to come and need it sorted.
Yep, certainly sounds like the selector switch/pipe around there is the culprit .................. your descriptions narrow it down to that for me anyhow.... the important fans are the ones outside they/it help move the air so cooling the juice , the internal one stops the lettuce and tomatoes from freezing in between door openings, when things are working....
I once experimented with running mine off solar, all my panels sunning themselves 420 on roof, 120 on ground and it all worked but would have given the battery a flogging later in the arvo and the next day would have been interesting to see how to manage it, only ran it for 30 mins or so to see how things went but really not feasable, though would be okay for an hour or so if you had to make an emergency run into town for some gas and you didn't want the fridge to warm up... I just anderson extention lead from tug anderson to my external anderson input/output battery socket..
Hope your next gas mechanic sorts it for you, make sure you have the fridge installation book handy or at least a schematic on laptop or something so he has the info at hand, every little bit helps...
I once experimented with running mine off solar, all my panels sunning themselves 420 on roof, 120 on ground and it all worked but would have given the battery a flogging later in the arvo and the next day would have been interesting to see how to manage it, only ran it for 30 mins or so to see how things went but really not feasable, though would be okay for an hour or so if you had to make an emergency run into town for some gas and you didn't want the fridge to warm up... I just anderson extention lead from tug anderson to my external anderson input/output battery socket..
Hope your next gas mechanic sorts it for you, make sure you have the fridge installation book handy or at least a schematic on laptop or something so he has the info at hand, every little bit helps...
@Roadhouse, as the fridge mechanic will have to pull fridge forward, it is a good time to have a proper look at how well it has been installed. Not only the insulation at the sides of fridge, (mine did not need any as was a very close/tight fit into cavity so no room for heats to go past!), but also that the area above fridge and below shelf is properly blocked off so no heat hangs around in dead spot. Also, make sure that the bafflle between the inside of van panel and bottom of condenser fins on back of fridge is fitted properly to ensure all air from below is forced to flow through the finned area of condenser, and that path of hot air from condenser fins to top vent is as smooth and straight as possible for easy exit. Every bit helps especially when working in extreme conditions.
Also, try not to let fridge warm up as it takes a long time to pull down again. If not connected to tug while you go exploring and van is parked, find a level spot and switch on gas until you get back - when fixed of course! Looking forward to your results on suspected gas leak and what you intend to do to improve cooling.
I have not invested in a shade shield for side of van on fridge side, because when I had fridge out, I insulated the entire cavity with home insulation reflective material. I also thought about reflecting back the heat from sun on fridge part side of van. So whilst all sides and top have silver heat reflective surface facing INWARDS, the rear inside wall of fridge cavity has the reflective side facing OUTWARDS with silver side glued to inside of outer panel. Seems to work as my temperature test chart shows. Just one of the many ways to modify and improve fridge operation.
@Roadhouse , finally found the very best explanation on how an Absorption fridge works and what will cause it damage too. Have a good read of this link and you will really up to date on Absorption refrigeration .
Thanks guys - been away out bush and not looking at the boards.
Gas mechanic had a look and once again found no leaks at all. Had his digital leak detector, used the soapy spray etc etc. nothing…
he pulled the fridge out and checked all controls and it all looks good. All looking new and no leaks.
He thinks that the flue wasn’t engaged properly and that we are smelling burnt gases. He made sure the fridge flue was engaged to the outside flue aperture and seems ok now.
On the temp side, things have been working a lot better as have been putting frozen 2l bottles of water in. Also making sure only cool foods make it in etc.
Will investigate fans on the upper grill to suck air out of the cavity behind the fridge to see if that helps.
All a learning experience!
thanks again for all the replies
Gas mechanic had a look and once again found no leaks at all. Had his digital leak detector, used the soapy spray etc etc. nothing…
he pulled the fridge out and checked all controls and it all looks good. All looking new and no leaks.
He thinks that the flue wasn’t engaged properly and that we are smelling burnt gases. He made sure the fridge flue was engaged to the outside flue aperture and seems ok now.
On the temp side, things have been working a lot better as have been putting frozen 2l bottles of water in. Also making sure only cool foods make it in etc.
Will investigate fans on the upper grill to suck air out of the cavity behind the fridge to see if that helps.
All a learning experience!
thanks again for all the replies
Well, well @Roadhouse, it looks like it was the unlikely problem that @Drover mentioned above. Even though the sealing of fridge may have kept you and party safe from carbon monoxide poisoning (a silent killer from burnt gas fumes), the heat/exhaust fumes from the gas flame was not directed to the outside and was heating up the fridge surrounds, Computer fans might have cleared some of the fumes/heat away from rear of fridge, but would not effectively drawn a good airflow through condenser fins cooling the fridge.
Although @Drover and some others may rely on fans only on the top vent, I prefer to have 1 x 120mm fan on both bottom and top vents. Yes, having fans on only the top vent should, in theory, create a lower pressure area in the bottom section and that should draw air in from below, (and anywhere else there is a gap/hole too), I believe that airflow would only be low over the absorber lower section and maybe only a slightly higher flow through the condenser section, depending on fridge sealing. Hence, I have stuck with one fan pulling cold air in (bottom), and I fan pushing hot air out (top). The bottom fan pulls/pushes lots of outside air directly onto/across the absorber piping, while the top fan sucks out the hot air from below and through the condenser fins. To ensure that the bottom fan does not blow air against/towards the boiler area (and reduce heating efficiency) , I have placed an aluminum barrier between the absorber pipes and side of boiler stack to stop this happening. Both (ball bearing type) fans are rated at 250ma each and each move 93 cubic feet of air per minute. Yes, they do whirr up a bit on start, but with that much air moving, they are not on long, usually only 30 seconds or so, which is all it takes to remove the hot air, to cool condenser fins and thermostat sensor and switch off fans. Maybe against the trend, but my figures and recordings seem to confirm my thinking. Not all may agree, but nothing beats the pure facts, But then I am a perfectionist and a bit pedantic too. Tread your own path!!!
Its often the simple things, glad it all seems good now ....... If it was the flu exhaust filling the rear of the cabinet i would be looking at a better seal around the fridge, not silastic though use insulation, if the heat is managing to get down the sides or top of the fridge sealing it off better will improve things even more...................
A fan at the bottom to supplement a fan at the top would improve things and I am a fan of it, though a bottom fan only wouldn't be as effective on its own I reckon.... at least not on a fridge that the vents are over 1.5m apart, though a fan that draws is always more efficient than one that pushes.................... The old incense stick trick shows a very good flow with my 2 top fans ON compared to OFF, have thought about 2 at the bottom as well ...
A fan at the bottom to supplement a fan at the top would improve things and I am a fan of it, though a bottom fan only wouldn't be as effective on its own I reckon.... at least not on a fridge that the vents are over 1.5m apart, though a fan that draws is always more efficient than one that pushes.................... The old incense stick trick shows a very good flow with my 2 top fans ON compared to OFF, have thought about 2 at the bottom as well ...
I have to agree with your comments @Drover. The distance between vents will have to have an effect on how much airflow can be achieved, something I don't have to consider with my smaller 93l Thetford one. The sealing of spaces between fridge and sides and top of cabinet is the key to removing hot air from back of fridge with fans, not to mention the safety factor of ensuring no burnt or unburnt gasses can get past edges of fridge and enter the living area.
Thanks guys. What puzzles me is that if it was/is burnt gas smell, why hasn’t my carbon monoxide beeped it’s head off?
The old 14.44 taught me lots about these fridges as it had no baffle fitted, at the back of fridge cable runs into the cupboards where wide open so when you ran the fridge hot air flowed into the cupboards on either side as well into the cavity on top of fridge and it was an efficient food warmer, some roof insulation from house and a can of foam soon had it sealed up and a bit of tin made up a nice baffle to deflect air out the top vent, then we did the Mk1 fan set up, I would hate to try and remove that fridge though, foam around the edges wasn't one of my greatest ideas, when I finished it I went "Oh, Oh" I shouldn't have done that !
, later mods on other fridges has been with some batts roled into a sausage and pushed into the gap...... or stapled to the wall so when you push the fridge back in it rolls and expands to create a good seal, just fittting a flat piece won't give a good full seal....on the floor a bead of silastic let to dry before pushing the fridge back in place seems to make a nice dust seal at the bottom as well...The O2 was just a whiff, not high enough concentration...... you can test the unit tough..
Insufficient concentration at the sensor point to be lethal, but may still give you a headache @Roadhouse .