Battery Charging

[KBerg Rig]

Hello All
Currently on the road, have been running on battery (single battery) for four days, battery has drawn down as expected, I have a battery gauge wired directly to the battery. How ever after 8 hours on the road today the battery hasn't charged? I tried with battery switch on and off, but same result. We've arrived at our campsite (now powered) and after 3 hours the battery still Doesn't show any signs of charging?
has anyone experienced anything similar and can advise where I should start looking?
Much thanks

 

[SP4RKI]

Make sure your battery switch is turned ON for charging. In my experience, the battery charger that is in the expanda charges at a very slow rate..... So don't expect it to be fully charged overnight. I would think it will take probably 48hours? If your in a hurry or have limited time to charge, I would suggest you go and buy a high amperage ctek battery charger and hook it up directly to the battery. I always disconnect the battery completely from the expanda to avoid any issues. A good ctek will also have a setting for deep cycle batteries to give it a higher charge than your standard batteries. There are heaps of options on the market, but this was the cheapest quick fix I found when suffering a similar situation to yourself.

 

[KBerg Rig]

Much thanks for that, I can confirm the battery switch is on, will monitor over the next day and report back. If it takes that long to charge on 240v is that why after 8 hrs today it wasn't charged from the car?

 

[AndrewC]

The charge rate from the car through the setec is really only a trickle charge from what I am led to believe and that's why after eight hours you have seen limited change, especially if the battery is deeply drained. To fix this you really need a good dc-dc charger between the caravan alternator and your van battery. Then you could get a good 20 amps or so in when driving.

See how your battery comes up overnight now that you are on 240v. If it is still showing as down opening morning, I would start by having your battery checked. The battery mob should be able to check true charging rate coming out of the setec when plugged into mains as well to verify that too.

 

[KBerg Rig]

Thanks also Andrew C, will have a look in the morning, I'm a long way from anywhere with a battery place at the moment (coral bay in WA) but I have my multimeter with me so can check this tomorrow and report back.

 

[bigcol]

if your heading south, Carnarvon has a good range of spares
if your heading north - Karratha will be your next decent shopping
not sure about Exmouth - not been in 20+ years

cheers

 

[Burnsy]

Hello All
Currently on the road, have been running on battery (single battery) for four days, battery has drawn down as expected, I have a battery gauge wired directly to the battery. How ever after 8 hours on the road today the battery hasn't charged? I tried with battery switch on and off, but same result. We've arrived at our campsite (now powered) and after 3 hours the battery still Doesn't show any signs of charging?
has anyone experienced anything similar and can advise where I should start looking?
Much thanks

Gday mate, welcome. You say you have a battery monitor wired to battery, you should see an increase in volts when your charging from mains, especially if battery voltage is down. I'd be checking fuses and if all good then check wires to make sure all are connected and tight. Also make sure the setec unit is turned on and is plugged in properly at the 240V power point.

 

[KBerg Rig]

Hello All, thanks for your comments and tips. Thankfully when I got up this morning the battery was fully charged again. So as per comments above when the battery is low the car won't charge it. I will check what voltage the car is putting back in at the battery and advise. It's a good lesson learnt as if I'd been going to another free camp I'd have been without power. Doing some research a DC-DC charger might be a good investment. Now to sort out my 12v fridge problem, that's another story, I'll start a separate post! Thanks again to everyone, it's all a learning experience!

 

[AndrewC]

KBerg, note that voltage only tells part of the story. When the car is running you will most likely get a good 13.5 volts through from the car, but, most likely the setec will only be letting a couple of amps of charging current through. This is the more important factor to consider. But as you said, a DC-DC charger will sort you out.

 

[boots33]

Hello All
Currently on the road, have been running on battery (single battery) for four days, battery has drawn down as expected, I have a battery gauge wired directly to the battery. How ever after 8 hours on the road today the battery hasn't charged? I tried with battery switch on and off, but same result. We've arrived at our campsite (now powered) and after 3 hours the battery still Doesn't show any signs of charging?
has anyone experienced anything similar and can advise where I should start looking?
Much thanks

Hey KBerg
sorry to hear of your charging problems, it sounds like you should look a bit further into why your battery has not been able to charge while on the road. Just for future reference when asking for help on problems like this it is great if you can supply as many details as possible. In this case things like size of wiring run from car, size and type of battery, type of setec ( st-20 or st-35 serries 1 or 2 ) and the Depth of Discharge (D.O.D) you took the battery down to would help in finding where the trouble lies.

the setec simply provides a direct connection via a diode from your cars charging system to you vans battery. Providing your wiring coming from your car is of suitable size your battery should have been well on its way to charging after 8 hours of driving. If you took your battery down below 10.5v the setec will have disconnected it to prevent serious damage to the battery. Once disconnected it will not re-connect unless the battery voltage rises above around 11.5 volts or you connect to 240v power. So if this happened your battery will have stayed disconnected the entire time you were driving.

If the setec did not disconnect then you should be looking at fuses and connections as sugested above or investigating whether your wiring is of a suitable size. Remember the wiring from you car has to supply your fridge and your battery so it can be a big ask if the wiring too small and the battery is very flat, even a dc-dc charger will struggle in this situation. If you intend to do a lot of off grid camping you really do need to have a solar panel to keep things going well. Panels are fairly cheap now days and would help prevent the kind of situation you found yourself in. It will also be much kinder to your battery by reducing the D.O.D it needs to deal with.

I guess the bottom line is that after 8 hours of driving your battery should have been on the improve so you need to find out what is going wrong. it might be worthwhile to get a sparky to give your setup the once over to see where the problem lies before making too many changes.

 

[KBerg Rig]

Hey KBerg
sorry to hear of your charging problems, it sounds like you should look a bit further into why your battery has not been able to charge while on the road. Just for future reference when asking for help on problems like this it is great if you can supply as many details as possible. In this case things like size of wiring run from car, size and type of battery, type of setec ( st-20 or st-35 serries 1 or 2 ) and the Depth of Discharge (D.O.D) you took the battery down to would help in finding where the trouble lies.

the setec simply provides a direct connection via a diode from your cars charging system to you vans battery. Providing your wiring coming from your car is of suitable size your battery should have been well on its way to charging after 8 hours of driving. If you took your battery down below 10.5v the setec will have disconnected it to prevent serious damage to the battery. Once disconnected it will not re-connect unless the battery voltage rises above around 11.5 volts or you connect to 240v power. So if this happened your battery will have stayed disconnected the entire time you were driving.

If the setec did not disconnect then you should be looking at fuses and connections as sugested above or investigating whether your wiring is of a suitable size. Remember the wiring from you car has to supply your fridge and your battery so it can be a big ask if the wiring too small and the battery is very flat, even a dc-dc charger will struggle in this situation. If you intend to do a lot of off grid camping you really do need to have a solar panel to keep things going well. Panels are fairly cheap now days and would help prevent the kind of situation you found yourself in. It will also be much kinder to your battery by reducing the D.O.D it needs to deal with.

I guess the bottom line is that after 8 hours of driving your battery should have been on the improve so you need to find out what is going wrong. it might be worthwhile to get a sparky to give your setup the once over to see where the problem lies before making too many changes.

Thanks Boots33, being a novice I have no idea what some of the above are but will endeavour to find out. this is the second time it's happened. After the first I had an auto elec go through everything and he added a new earth on the van and car and confirmed everything was Charging correctly. Also changed the fridge over to an Anderson plug as there was already one on the car. He was concerned the fridge wasn't working on 12v so I took it to a dometic agent. They confirmed fridge was working but suffering from voltage drop of nearly 4 volts as cable run was too long and not heavy enough gage. However with the car running it would be OK until new cable can be run. So my wallet is significantly lighter but I still have the same problem running the fridge on 12v and not charging the battery as above. I don't understand how voltage drop can cause the second battery to be drawn down. I'm just running without the fridge on 12v until I can get it sorted and my wallet lightened again.

 

[boots33]

Thanks Boots33, being a novice I have no idea what some of the above are but will endeavour to find out. this is the second time it's happened. After the first I had an auto elec go through everything and he added a new earth on the van and car and confirmed everything was Charging correctly

The problem there is that he probably did his checks when your van battery was close to or fully charged. Lots of people have a fairly light 6mm cable run through their vehicle to supply their van. This is ok for most of the time but you must understand that if your van battery is very flat it will require a large amount of current to bring it back up. Add to this the power your fridge requires and it will be problems for sure. The trick to surviving If you have a light cable run and want to camp off grid is to reduce your power requirements ( led lights etc) and keep your battery charged with solar. This way the only large power your vehicle has to supply while travelling is to the fridge.

Also changed the fridge over to an Anderson plug as there was already one on the car.

What size cable is going to the anderson plug? If it looks to be a bit thicker than a Bic biro then it will probably be 6B&S which is good. Power to the anderson plug may not be switched off with ignition keep that in mind if you tend to stop for extended periods with the van connected.

He was concerned the fridge wasn't working on 12v so I took it to a dometic agent. They confirmed fridge was working but suffering from voltage drop of nearly 4 volts as cable run was too long and not heavy enough gage.

Was this with it connected to the anderson plug or through the trailer connector.

So my wallet is significantly lighter but I still have the same problem running the fridge on 12v and not charging the battery as above.

3way fridges are very heavy users of 12v power, around 10amp for the 90ltr and 15amp for the 150ltr (from memory). for example in the 150ltr installation instructions it recommends a minimum of 6mm cable and a total length of not more than 8m. So you can see that there would not be much left to charge the battery. For vans with 150ltr fridges jayco normally require at least two 6mm cable runs.

I don't understand how voltage drop can cause the second battery to be drawn down. I'm just running without the fridge on 12v until I can get it sorted and my wallet lightened again.

It will depend on how it is all wired in. If your van battery is connected as Jayco normally do it then it will be through the setec aux in connector. This will prevent the fridge from drawing from the van battery. But if you are suffering a voltage drop of 4v just to the fridge then you will have no chance or charging the battery. Lets say the car is providing 14v and you are loosing 4v that only leaves 10v available by the time it reaches your battery. you simply can't charge a 12v battery with 10v.

I am sorry I can't be of more help I know it can be a bit hard to supply more information if you are not electrically inclined ( my mate says that about my welding attempts.) but without more info on your setup I would only be guessing.

 

[Hubble80]

Very interesting that your battery is connected to you fridge. In my 17.56-2OB, the only way I can run the fridge on 12V is through the Anderson plug. I have no way of charging my battery whilst driving (yet). I was told by the dealer that I had to wire 12V to pin 2 in the round trailer lights plug... This obviously runs to the Setec, Think I might come up with something better myself!!! Maybe a DC-DC charger after the fridge as they will provide better charging to the battery, especially when the supply voltage is low. KBerg, just wondering what sort of car you have and if it has a dual battery setup installed?

 

[ROnEM]

Hubble80,

On your 17.56-2 OB, sounds like you only have a 7 pin round plug.

Our dealer was adamant that we have a 12 pin plug. They gave us the plug when we ordered the 17.56-2 OB so we could get it fitted & cabled.

Power to pin-2 usually powers (charges) the break away battery.

We have a LC200 and had my auto elec put in the desler provided 12 pin plug and also an Anderson Plug I wanted.

The Anderson Plug runs from the battery with 6B&S twin cables - full +ve and -ve wires, no chassis earth, but straight back to battery terminals via battery isolator and fuse.

Anderson Plug goes directly to a Ctek DC-DC charger to charge the 2 x 100AH batteries
Pins 9&10 have 6mm cable from battery and go through to the fridge.
Pin 2 is piggy-backed from 6mm cable to power/charge the Break-Away battery.
Pin 5 is 6mm cable from the Brake controller, to avoid voltage drop-off using the light-weight LC200 cable loom.

Below is my wiring diagram. Perhaps I should also do one for the way I have set up the car to the 12 pin and Anderson Plug!

Hope this helps.

Rohan

 

[Brad]

Yep I would be interested in your wiring diagram of the 12 pin and Anderson plug

 

[Hubble80]

Looks like a good setup mate, can't seem to find how you power your fridge on 12V tough??

 

[ROnEM]

Brad & Hubble80,

Here is the wiring diagram from the vehicle side. Hope it helps..

Cheers,

Rohan

 

[Burnsy]

Nice diagram Ro! Did you wire your brake away battery to pin 2 yourself?

 

[Brad]

Thanks Ro. Changing all of this is a job for me in the not too distant future. I will probably make your design the base of what I do if you don't mind.

 

[ROnEM]

Nice diagram Ro! Did you wire your brake away battery to pin 2 yourself?

Burnsy - It was as Jayco asked for the plugs to be wired. As they do not use/have a reversing light on their vans, they take the liberty to use it. Not sure what they do now.

I am inclined to change it to another pin just in case I end up putting something on the Tug that does have reversing lights.