14' Series Advice for new 14.44-4 owner

[Boots in Action]

Thanks to all for your advice.

After reading another thread on this forum, I'm feeling a bit happier regarding the safety of my current setup.

"just unplug the setec from the 240v power point. that will stop it from supplying 12v and charging your battery. By leaving the setec in place it will still provide low voltage cutout protection to your battery and fuse protection for your load circuits"

https://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/how-to-bypass-setek-charger.2487/

Am I right in assuming that the 15A 240v power in caravan is independent from the Setec unit and is protected by the RCD combo?

All of the above is of course assuming that no other fixed wiring has been modified.

My only other current concern (excuse the pun) is the fact that the battery isolator switch on the wall now does nothing (as it cut power thru the Setec unit).
I guess for the time being, I can isolate battery from all 12v circuits by removing BATT blade fuse from fuseboard on front of Setec. Would this (admittedly rough) idea do the job?

Notwithstanding what @mikerezny said about about what "could or could not" be connected to where @Dirtynidge, the Setec unit is disconnected from the 240 volt supply by not connecting the 240 volt input plug. The Setec is (or should be ) now just acting as a distribution point for all your 12 volt items in the van with power from the battery. Low voltage disconnect should still be effective as this is sensed by Setec from battery voltage. With no charging from Setec and only from Ctek 5A charger which is directly connected to battery, there is no 240 volt potential in Setec distribution unit. All separate fuses are in circuit as well as the 20A total load fuse for all your 12 volt loads. Yes, you could remove the 20A fuse to isolate the 12 volt loads if you wish, but not really necessary unless doing repairs etc.
With the Setec NOT CONNECTED to 240 volt power, there is still the other 240 volts power points working as before and all 240 volts power is through the RCD.

 

[mikerezny]

Hi @Boots in Action,
I am still not sure about the LVD working. That will be driven by some electronics that activates the same relay that is also activated by the battery switch.
That same electronics should also be illuminating the yellow led.

I am still puzzled as to why the battery switch is not working, the led is not working, but if no wiring has been altered, the relay that connects the battery to the load fuses is working.

Since the 12V battery fuse disconnects the battery, the wiring from the battery to the battery input terminals would seem to be correct.

It will be interesting to find out what is going on.

take care
Mike

 

[Drover]

I never saw any lights on my Setek in my 09 Panda, not even sure which Setek was fitted though, a II I think............... anyway Setek unplugged from 240 your safe...... if you can get to Charleville next week I will give it a good look see for you.............. Thargomindah in about 2 weeks time....

 

[Dirtynidge]

Thanks Mike, unfortunately no pleasant surprises:

I did as suggested above and removed all 12v fuses, plugged in Setec and plugged in 240V supply to van....
Tripped CB's both in 10/15A adaptor box and in main board in house, something very wrong in 240v side of ST-35.

I've pulled off Battery Switch. There is some twin core 1.5mm coming off the back of it (white and brown), no voltage to either terminal. Cable then heads off down back of fridge, presumably to relay in Setec.

There's no two ways about it, I can't trace wiring any further without removing Setec unit, which I'm not very keen to now do as it's getting dark!

I really cant thank you all enough for your input, I would be going crazy without your help.

 

[Drover]

No drama @Dirtynidge we will try to help, if its any consulation today as I parked the van at Roma, shut down the Jeep and the start button fell inside the dash, all fixed and I now have pretty good knowledge to dismantle the dash and I must say one of my best side of road repair jobs ever............... the thing is go slowly, don't rush or stress out, walk away when you get the sh*ts with it............problems are usually simple things to fix and most advice tends to go to the other end of the spectrum with huge problems, huge dollars etc when a lot of the time its a dirty terminal sort of thing.........

If you decide to throw the Setek in the bin you can replace it with a whizz bang system or a basic system that works and doesn't break the bank if your handy with wire.......... I would just cut the 240 lead off, replace the Ctek with a unit designed for RV batteries, check out caravansplus for some decent units at reasonable price but keep the Ctek as they are a great portable unit, have one myself, just replace the cable from battery to Setek and run it thu the switch with a 35 amp inline fuse added and you will be good to go, with your solar run it from reg straight to battery, no other options, don't worry about trying to run anything from the Load terminal on the reg just a waste of time and resources.......... Look at it all with the KiSS principle.

 

[mikerezny]

I never saw any lights on my Setek in my 09 Panda, not even sure which Setek was fitted though, a II I think............... anyway Setek unplugged from 240 your safe...... if you can get to Charleville next week I will give it a good look see for you.............. Thargomindah in about 2 weeks time....

Hi @Drover,
An 09 would most probably had a Series II. It has only one red led to indicate faults. It has only 5 load fuses instead of 8 in the series III.

On a series III, if there is 12V available for lights etc, there has to be at least led on: green indicating 240V available to provide 12V, yellow indicating 12V available from the battery, or both yellow and green indicating 240V available and battery available, which means battery also will be charging.

take care
Mike

 

[Dirtynidge]

Ha ha, yes I used to go mad with this stuff but now sadistically enjoy it. I spend all day every day fixing other people stuff (CNC machines) but tend to overthink my own repairs.

So, if I were to bin the Setec, the CTEK MXS5 currently fitted is realistically too small for this application?

Also just to clarify (again, sorry), wires from the solar reg can go straight to battery terminals with Ctek (or upgraded variant) also connected to battery?

 

[mikerezny]

Thanks Mike, unfortunately no pleasant surprises:

I did as suggested above and removed all 12v fuses, plugged in Setec and plugged in 240V supply to van....
Tripped CB's both in 10/15A adaptor box and in main board in house, something very wrong in 240v side of ST-35.

I've pulled off Battery Switch. There is some twin core 1.5mm coming off the back of it (white and brown), no voltage to either terminal. Cable then heads off down back of fridge, presumably to relay in Setec.

There's no two ways about it, I can't trace wiring any further without removing Setec unit, which I'm not very keen to now do as it's getting dark!

I really cant thank you all enough for your input, I would be going crazy without your help.

Hi @dirtdiggler,
don't throw it in the bin.
If you can keep it for me. I might be able to use it for parts to help someone out one day.
Well, assuming that they let us out of Melbourne one day!

It is strange that it blew the ECBs but did not blow the fuse on the circuit board.
Seems to me that it is an earth leakage fault.
Sounds like a surge suppressor might have gone S/C.
Use your multi meter to check resistance between A to Earth and N to Earth.
Better still if you have a 240V insulation tester commonly used by the tagging and testing people.

take care
Mike

 

[Dirtynidge]

Hi @dirtdiggler,
don't throw it in the bin.
If you can keep it for me. I might be able to use it for parts to help someone out one day.
Well, assuming that they let us out of Melbourne one day!

It is strange that it blew the ECBs but did not blow the fuse on the circuit board.
Seems to me that it is an earth leakage fault.
Sounds like a surge suppressor might have gone S/C.
Use your multi meter to check resistance between A to Earth and N to Earth.
Better still if you have a 240V insulation tester commonly used by the tagging and testing people.

take care
Mike

True, that is strange that the fuse on PCB didnt blow. Good idea, I will pull out my megger and check it out.

 

[Boots in Action]

Ha ha, yes I used to go mad with this stuff but now sadistically enjoy it. I spend all day every day fixing other people stuff (CNC machines) but tend to overthink my own repairs.

So, if I were to bin the Setec, the CTEK MXS5 currently fitted is realistically too small for this application?

Also just to clarify (again, sorry), wires from the solar reg can go straight to battery terminals with Ctek (or upgraded variant) also connected to battery?

Correct in all cases @Dirtynidge . The CTEC 5A is too small. Suggest at least a 10A job, but preferably a 15A type for best results. Rule of thumb is charger should be capable of at least 10% of amp hour capacity of battery. Lesser will take longer to charge up a low battery and higher is not recommended as it may try to put in too much current for battery to handle. Not a problem with AGMs though as they can take heaps (upwards of 30A), but GEL don't like anything more than 20A.
Your last paragraph is also correct! Note if using a separate solar controller (not the one on back of panel), then the controller on panel must be bypassed. More on that later as you get yourself organised and let us know what you are doing.

 

[Boots in Action]

No drama @Dirtynidge we will try to help, if its any consulation today as I parked the van at Roma, shut down the Jeep and the start button fell inside the dash, all fixed and I now have pretty good knowledge to dismantle the dash and I must say one of my best side of road repair jobs ever............... the thing is go slowly, don't rush or stress out, walk away when you get the sh*ts with it............problems are usually simple things to fix and most advice tends to go to the other end of the spectrum with huge problems, huge dollars etc when a lot of the time its a dirty terminal sort of thing.........

If you decide to throw the Setek in the bin you can replace it with a whizz bang system or a basic system that works and doesn't break the bank if your handy with wire.......... I would just cut the 240 lead off, replace the Ctek with a unit designed for RV batteries, check out caravansplus for some decent units at reasonable price but keep the Ctek as they are a great portable unit, have one myself, just replace the cable from battery to Setek and run it thu the switch with a 35 amp inline fuse added and you will be good to go, with your solar run it from reg straight to battery, no other options, don't worry about trying to run anything from the Load terminal on the reg just a waste of time and resources.......... Look at it all with the KiSS principle.

Cannot agree with you @Drover about NOT running load through the controller...never a waste of time or resources. Indeed, if you read up on a lot of MPPT controllers eg VICTRON and EPEVER and others, you will note that they tell you to connect load through Controller so full information can be recorded at any time and for record purposes too...daily logging etc. There is also the advantage of setting your OWN parameters for LVD and LVR as you know the Setec has very poor (low) settings for these. Electrically straight forward if no Drifter panel, but accept that running wiring to suit may involve some effort.

 

[Boots in Action]

Hi @Boots in Action,
I am still not sure about the LVD working. That will be driven by some electronics that activates the same relay that is also activated by the battery switch.
That same electronics should also be illuminating the yellow led.

I am still puzzled as to why the battery switch is not working, the led is not working, but if no wiring has been altered, the relay that connects the battery to the load fuses is working.

Since the 12V battery fuse disconnects the battery, the wiring from the battery to the battery input terminals would seem to be correct.

It will be interesting to find out what is going on.

take care
Mike

Mike @mikerezny , if the battery switch is bypassed and the LED operating lights are part of that circuit, that would cause that problem. However if power is still available to Setec, (as a distribution point) the LVD would still be operational as it is always in circuit when you are off grid and operating on internal battery. But @Dirtynidge is now dismantling the switch which does not appear to be in the circuit at the moment. The fact that the fuse in the Setec did not blow but the ECBs did indicates that power is not getting as far as the Setec fuse and that the fault is earlier in the circuit. Maybe just a wire come loose in the line leading to fuse in PCB??

 

[Drover]

Cannot agree with you @Drover about NOT running load through the controller...never a waste of time or resources. Indeed, if you read up on a lot of MPPT controllers eg VICTRON and EPEVER and others, you will note that they tell you to connect load through Controller so full information can be recorded at any time and for record purposes too...daily logging etc. There is also the advantage of setting your OWN parameters for LVD and LVR as you know the Setec has very poor (low) settings for these. Electrically straight forward if no Drifter panel, but accept that running wiring to suit may involve some effort.

Really depends on the regulator oh electrical guru @Boots in Action and also how the wiring is on the van in question, some it requires a bit of work to add a buss bar for the van wiring to connect to so a single cable set can be run to the reg, not all rigs have it easy in regards to wiring set up, not to mention where the reg can be situated..........
In my case it wouldn't be that hard just can't see any advantage.............and if the reg was alike a TPS1230 would you really want to ...

 

[Drover]

Maybe it had a solar set up before and he ran the battery cable to the Reg then the Regs LOAD point to the Setek, removed the gear when he sold it and just twisted the wires together......... then you would have power to the Setek but the switch bypassed..... Just a thought...........

Corrected after @Boots in Action proof reading.........................

 

[Boots in Action]

Maybe it had a solar set up before and he ran the battery cable to the regs LOAD point then to the Setek, removed the gear when he sold it and just twisted the wires together......... then you would have power to the Setek but switch bypassed..... Just a thought...........

@Drover the battery leads are NEVER connected to the LOAD terminals at any stage. Battery leads go to BATTERY terminals on controller, solar input to SOLAR terminals, and LOAD terminals on controller are for connection to any loads needed, EXCEPT high drain appliances. With all the issues coming up for @Dirtynidge , who knows how things were connected.!!

 

[Drover]

@Drover the battery leads are NEVER connected to the LOAD terminals at any stage. Battery leads go to BATTERY terminals on controller, solar input to SOLAR terminals, and LOAD terminals on controller are for connection to any loads needed, EXCEPT high drain appliances. With all the issues coming up for @Dirtynidge , who knows how things were connected.!!

Yep, more of a typo actually, my Yippee beans and Toast for brekky was delivered in the middle of typing............. you may proof read and comment on the corrected version................... sounds a very plausable situation though don't you think....

 

[Dirtynidge]

Thanks all, I still havent pulled out the Setek unit to see what is going on but had our first weekend away in van last weekend and all worked great.

One thing that has me a little puzzled/worried:
When van is connected to 240v supply from house (and battery is charging), measuring from each pin on caravan's trailer plug, to caravan chassis, I'm getting anywhere between 30-45VAC.

240vac is supplied to van via brand new 15A 20m extension lead, thru Jaycar 10A/15A adapter box.

Caravan chassis resistance to mains house earth is 1.5ohm.

Anyone have any idea what could be going on?

 

[MDS69]

Thanks all, I still havent pulled out the Setek unit to see what is going on but had our first weekend away in van last weekend and all worked great.

One thing that has me a little puzzled/worried:
When van is connected to 240v supply from house (and battery is charging), measuring from each pin on caravan's trailer plug, to caravan chassis, I'm getting anywhere between 30-45VAC.

240vac is supplied to van via brand new 15A 20m extension lead, thru Jaycar 10A/15A adapter box.

Caravan chassis resistance to mains house earth is 1.5ohm.

Anyone have any idea what could be going on?

something fishy going on there. Can you measure from the van chassis to earth. Run another extension lead from a power outlet in your house and use the earth pin in that lead then measure to the chassis With the original power lead powering the van.

 

[Dirtynidge]

something fishy going on there. Can you measure from the van chassis to earth. Run another extension lead from a power outlet in your house and use the earth pin in that lead then measure to the chassis With the original power lead powering the van.

Thanks. Yes, I've tried this using earth from another 20m extension lead - 1.5ohm resistance from chassis to house earth.
15A earth pin on van inlet plug to van chassis is 0.1ohm.
Same with any GPO earth in van to van chassis.
Removed and tested extension lead, all continuity and resistances check out ok.
No RCD's tripping

 

[mikerezny]

Measure the resistance from the earth pin on the trailer plug and the van chassis.
Seems like your 12V system is not earthed to the chassis.