14' Series Advice for new 14.44-4 owner

[Dirtynidge]

Hello all, pleased to make your acquaintance. I hope I've posted this in the right place, apologies if not.

We've recently become the owners of a 2014 14.44-4 after contemplating one for years. I've attached a photo of it.

First impressions are that it is a great little van but I have a few basic questions.

Firstly, our van has evidence of several attempted mods to the top hinge ends of the front bed end lid (although luckily so evidence of any water damage anywhere). It seems the previously owners resolved any leaks once and for all by attaching a canvas storm cover to a sail track just above the hinge. This is visible in the attached photo.

My question is, as this cover obviously cant be left attached whilst driving, should I be concerned about water ingress in this area whilst the lid is closed when driving?

Another question; I dont believe our van has a 12v water pump, if it's there then I cant find it! Was the 12v pump standard or optional on this model?

I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions along the way but that's about it for a start. If anyone has any general advice they can offer regarding the 14.44 then I'm all ears.

Thanks all!

 

[Drover]

Welcome to the mob @Dirtynidge I had a 14.44.3 and its story is here; https://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/drovers-14-44-3.4502/ and while not exactly the same it may have some helpful bits ..............

I'm not positive but if you don't have an ensuite and HWS then the water pump was an option, they were usually in a cupboard.........the cover was probably fitted to curb water getting onto the bed end top but I doubt you will water getting in when the lid is closed, though you do need to fold up the bed end and bedding properly so the inner lid (bed base) closes snuggly if not then the outer lid may get a gap.

Any other questions ask away there are a number of threads regarding bed ends, the concept is the same for the hard lids even though the lid has gone thru a couple of mods over the years.

 

[AussieMadDog]

Welcome. We bought a 2013 14.44-4 in Feb this year. We've had 2 trips in it, and loving it.

Our bunk model didn't come with a 12v pump as standard originally, but we are also looking at getting one (and also an outdoor shower). I searched online and found Jayco's 2013 Expanda brochure, which detailed inclusions. Maybe there is a 2014 brochure out there as well.

Just last month we fitted a storm cover, it survived a major thunderstorm on its first test. There is a gap between the outer lid and the folded up base when closed, though that gap narrows toward the top (on our model). We slide the storm cover out of the sail track to travel, if this is an option for you, otherwise, as Drover said, if the bed end is folded in tightly and the lid closes without resistance then you should be ok.

 

[MDS69]

Congrats on the purchase. We have a 2014 14.44-4 OB. We optioned the HWS and I think the water pump was standard for the OB. Our water pump is located under the front dining seat so lift your cushion and false base to check the area behind the drawer

 

[Dirtynidge]

Thanks very much all, some great advice. I've checked under seat an no water pump, should be easy enough to wire/plumb in but will see how we go without it for now.

One more question...

I believe my 14.44 has been factory pre wired for solar (junction box on roof, 6mm2 wires thru pop top canvas).

I have bought a cheap 160W caravan solar kit from Supercheap which I will soon be fitting, I do have a question about the wiring though....

Tracing the 6mm solar wiring down from roof, it runs through one of 3 small HPM terminal boxes in overhead locker (above seating/dining area). Measuring volts in this terminal box I get 12v, indicating that it is already wired direct to battery.

Based on this, I'm assuming need to interrupt this cabling somewhere and put the solar regulator in line on it? It just seems odd to me that they would prewire it straight to battery when it would always need a regulator wiring in....

Any thoughts or help greatly appreciated

 

[Boots in Action]

Thanks very much all, some great advice. I've checked under seat an no water pump, should be easy enough to wire/plumb in but will see how we go without it for now.

One more question...

I believe my 14.44 has been factory pre wired for solar (junction box on roof, 6mm2 wires thru pop top canvas).

I have bought a cheap 160W caravan solar kit from Supercheap which I will soon be fitting, I do have a question about the wiring though....

Tracing the 6mm solar wiring down from roof, it runs through one of 3 small HPM terminal boxes in overhead locker (above seating/dining area). Measuring volts in this terminal box I get 12v, indicating that it is already wired direct to battery.

Based on this, I'm assuming need to interrupt this cabling somewhere and put the solar regulator in line on it? It just seems odd to me that they would prewire it straight to battery when it would always need a regulator wiring in....



Not all that familiar with your van @Dirtynidge, but think that in one of those HPM terminal boxes, you will find that is where one would fit a solar controller if a roof top solar panel was installed. If you have a portable solar panel, it may be a little messy running a wire from outside in through the roof top. Something to think about would be to have a Anderson plug on outside of van in a suitable place to connect to outside solar panel. That plug would need to be wired to a solar controller (also in a suitable position) and the controller then connected to battery. The less the wiring the better and the closer the controller to battery is important. There will be others on this forum with other ideas especially if they have similar vans. However, as you do not have roof top solar panels installed, you will have to think about the best way to do this. I have my solar panels connected to an outside Anderson plug as per the attached. Fortunately for me in my Penguin, there is room just inside for my MPPT controller and the battery is just behind controller.Hope this helps. More info if needed.

 

[Drover]

Do you have something like this outside a cupboard ???????????????????? It will be whats powering your 12v stuff via the battery or 240v...don't connect solar up to this, connect solar direct to battery via a regulator..... but trace where those wires actually go that you found on the roof before you plug anything in, should be a battery switch near the Setek unit so you can disconnect battery from it BUT since it ha sbeen pre loved follow any wiring thats hanging off the battery, its always ideal to trace and tag all wires before you start playing with things especially on 2nd time round ones.......Also if you add a pump you will need a proper tap and a few Guest fittings as well as some extra pipe, fuse cable and switch..if you look at my thread you will find some pics of how I mounted nmy pump under the van...............

.....Setek ST35

 

[Dirtynidge]

Thanks for replies. Yes, I have a Setek ST-III until on panel under fridge, battery switch is nearby.
Existing solar wiring prep goes behind fridge, presumably terminated at or near Setek unit. It certainly doesnt appear to be going straight to battery.

I will have to get in and figure wiring out but it sounds like solar reg straight to battery is best?

Funny thing with this Setek ST-III - it has LEDs on the front for 'MAINS', 'BATTERY' and "FAULT". Regardless of how van is being powered, I've never seen any of them illuminated.

 

[Boots in Action]

@

Thanks for replies. Yes, I have a Setek ST-III until on panel under fridge, battery switch is nearby.
Existing solar wiring prep goes behind fridge, presumably terminated at or near Setek unit. It certainly doesnt appear to be going straight to battery.

I will have to get in and figure wiring out but it sounds like solar reg straight to battery is best?

Funny thing with this Setek ST-III - it has LEDs on the front for 'MAINS', 'BATTERY' and "FAULT". Regardless of how van is being powered, I've never seen any of them illuminated.

@Dirtynidge, I think you will find that the wires from the solar wiring will in fact go directly to battery terminals, unless as @Drover implied, that previous owner has been mucking around with the wiring and not knowing what he was doing.
Your second paragraph is correct.
Your last paragraph is interesting. You should when connected to 240 volt power, have the mains light come on. Also, when just operating on internal battery power, the battery light should illuminate. They are not that bright so look carefully and make sure the Battery switch is "ON" as well.
Attached is link to Setec wiring diagram which also confirms how solar input is connected directly to battery terminals.

https://teambmpro.com/wp-content/uploads/ST-III-Manual-023447.pdf

 

[mikerezny]

Plug your van into 240V and ensure at least one of the power points is working. Look behind the Setec unit and find the 240V power cord for the Setec. Check that it is plugged into a power point and that it is switched on. Then check that the green LED on the front panel of the Setec is illuminated.
If not, unplug the Setec from the power point and plug another appliance into the socket and confirm that the power point is working.
If so, then you have a fault in the Setec.
The Setec does have an internal fuse on the 240V input. It is NOT one of the fuses in the fuse panel behind the front door.

The yellow LED indicates that a battery is connected. Get a multimeter and measure the battery voltage. It should be over 12V or so.
Switch the battery switch on and the yellow LED should then be on. If not, check the battery fuse in the fuse panel. It is the fuse on the far right.

The manual provided by @Boots in Action will describe all the error conditions that are reported by the red LED.

All of your lights are 12V and are powered by the Setec power supply when connected to 240V or by the battery when the battery switch is ON and 240V is not available.

The Setec has a Low Voltage Disconnect feature (LVD) which will disconnect the battery from all loads if the battery voltage goes below 10V.
The Setec will only charge a flat battery at 0.8A until the battery voltage gets back up to 10.5V or 11.7V. The manual explain the two different voltages.

 

[Dirtynidge]

Plug your van into 240V and ensure at least one of the power points is working. Look behind the Setec unit and find the 240V power cord for the Setec. Check that it is plugged into a power point and that it is switched on. Then check that the green LED on the front panel of the Setec is illuminated.
If not, unplug the Setec from the power point and plug another appliance into the socket and confirm that the power point is working.
If so, then you have a fault in the Setec.
The Setec does have an internal fuse on the 240V input. It is NOT one of the fuses in the fuse panel behind the front door.

The yellow LED indicates that a battery is connected. Get a multimeter and measure the battery voltage. It should be over 12V or so.
Switch the battery switch on and the yellow LED should then be on. If not, check the battery fuse in the fuse panel. It is the fuse on the far right.

The manual provided by @Boots in Action will describe all the error conditions that are reported by the red LED.

All of your lights are 12V and are powered by the Setec power supply when connected to 240V or by the battery when the battery switch is ON and 240V is not available.

The Setec has a Low Voltage Disconnect feature (LVD) which will disconnect the battery from all loads if the battery voltage goes below 10V.
The Setec will only charge a flat battery at 0.8A until the battery voltage gets back up to 10.5V or 11.7V. The manual explain the two different voltages.

Thanks all.
I have just checked now:
Power points aircon and AC fridge all work with 240v connected to van.
12v lights all work fine.
No lights ever on Setec unit though....

 

[Dirtynidge]

Ok. Things are getting a bit fishy...

I have found a loose, disconnected 240v plug and lead which is coming out from behind Setec unit, labelled "do not use, charger fried". The L & N pins on this plug 'buzz out' to the 240v supply side on Setec PCB.

There is a small Setec MXS-5.0 battery charger next to battery, guessing that isnt standard?

Checking with a multimeter, the fuses in the Setec unit all have 12V supply to them and removing the BATT fuse isolates 12V lights etc. The battery switch on wall however seems to isolate nothing...

All looks very suspect to me.... anyone have a clue what is going on?

 

[mikerezny]

You are now in dodgy land. The only one who will have a clue will be the "genius" who has messed around with it.

You need to start following the wiring to understand what has been done.

If the Setec is "fried", it is a bit weird since all the 12V appliances are still sourced through the Setec fuse box. So it must be getting 12V from somewhere.
Best guess is that the 12V comes from the battery into the Setec to provide power to the load fuses.
If the Setec is working, that should be enough to have the yellow led lit and for the battery switch to switch the battery feed into the Setec.
The overview schematic in the users manual shows this level of detail.

ONLY DO THIS IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE:
Ensure that the van is NOT connected to 240V and the Setec power lead is NOT plugged in.
Then remove the fuse in the top left hand corner of the circuit board to check that it is not blown. Put fuse back in or replace if needed.
Put the cover back on the Setec.
Pull all the 12V fuses (load and battery fuses),
Connect 240V to your van, plug the Setec into 240V to see if you get a green light.

The battery must be being charged by the Ctex (not Setec?). Probably wired directly to the battery.

The HPM junction box is probably where the solar controller would be installed. One set of wires to the panels on the roof, the other set directly to the battery.

 

[Drover]

Certainly need to trace all the cables, label as you go and as Mike said above for testing but take the Ctek out of the system when you do... AS you check things ensure the terminal are crimped properly, not loose or chomped badly............... of course if not happy fiddling with the 240 then don't and always ensure the lead is pulled from the van don't rely on a switch to turn power 240 off........ The charger in with the battery is a Ctek unit and the van system is a Setec.....

 

[Dirtynidge]

Cool, thanks all.

Im not sure it's the end if the world IF it's been done right.

From what I've read a few people have done away the Setec unit (but still utilise it as a 12v fuse box), and add a seperate Ctek chargers (although the 5A one in mine seems a bit small).

I will get in and check it out, I do have a restricted license so have half an idea what I'm doing.

 

[Drover]

Yep, just knowing whats going where is half the battle, the Ctek will be okay until you start wanting to run heaps of extras on 12v ...best is to get the wiring sorted then see how much piwer you actually need if you go solar I would start at a 200 for the simple fact that once its done it should cover future needs and one less thing to stuff around with later..

 

[Dirtynidge]

Yep, just knowing whats going where is half the battle, the Ctek will be okay until you start wanting to run heaps of extras on 12v ...best is to get the wiring sorted then see how much piwer you actually need if you go solar I would start at a 200 for the simple fact that once its done it should cover future needs and one less thing to stuff around with later..

Thanks, long term I will get the original Setec repaired and change all back to 'factory'.
Can you see any issues with connecting the solar direct to battery (via solar reg obvs), when the Ctek is also connected to battery?

 

[Boots in Action]

Thanks, long term I will get the original Setec repaired and change all back to 'factory'.
Can you see any issues with connecting the solar direct to battery (via solar reg obvs), when the Ctek is also connected to battery?

Well @Dirtynidge , you have opened up a "can of worms" alright, but all is not lost. You have been given good advice from @mikerezny and @Drover too, so situation is not too bad. The 240 volt stepdown transformer in the Setec has probably burnt out (even though it has many safety features, it cannot protect against idiots!) and hence you are not able to get a controlled 12 volt charge going to battery with all the other benefits as per the manual I have sent to you. The C-tek 5A charger is limited in what it can provide, but is workable for the time being.
Regarding your proposed connection of solar power to system, there will be no issues connecting solar input direct to battery, but must go through solar controller. Even if both 240 volt power is applied through your C-tek 5A charger and solar , (unlikely in any case), the result will be that the unit with the highest charging voltage will over-ride the other and the battery will not be overcharged. Take care in sorting out the wiring that has been changed around.

 

[Dirtynidge]

Thanks to all for your advice.

After reading another thread on this forum, I'm feeling a bit happier regarding the safety of my current setup.

"just unplug the setec from the 240v power point. that will stop it from supplying 12v and charging your battery. By leaving the setec in place it will still provide low voltage cutout protection to your battery and fuse protection for your load circuits"

https://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/how-to-bypass-setek-charger.2487/

Am I right in assuming that the 15A 240v power in caravan is independent from the Setec unit and is protected by the RCD combo?

All of the above is of course assuming that no other fixed wiring has been modified.

My only other current concern (excuse the pun) is the fact that the battery isolator switch on the wall now does nothing (as it cut power thru the Setec unit).
I guess for the time being, I can isolate battery power from all 12v circuits by removing BATT blade fuse from fuseboard on front of Setec. Would this (admittedly rough) idea do the job?

 

[mikerezny]

Hi,
undo the switch and follow the wiring back to the Setec. Perhaps that wiring has been modified as well.

Something is still not right. If you have 12V from the battery to the Setec and then to the appliances, the yellow led should be on.
If you look at the schematic, there is a relay between the 12V battery and the load fuses that is activated / deactivated by the LVD and / or the battery switch.
You need to look carefully at the wiring from the battery to the Setec, the battery switch to the Setec, etc.

I would not assume that the LVD circuit is working.

Keep you eyes out in the marketplace. Some people don't like the Setec unit and quite often replace it. They come up regularly for free or minimal cost.
Make sure you get a series III. If you are considering eventually getting two batteries, try to find a Setec ST35 series III.
This may work out cheaper than getting it repaired.

As I posted before, I would not assume it is fried until at least testing it. You might be pleasantly surprised.

take care
Mike