@Crusty181 the issue you have are because you drive a Nissan! Real men like fishing, beer, boobs and drive Landcruisers!!!!
Chassis Weight Distribution Hitch Video
- Thread starter cruza driver
- Start date
Fishing ... beer ... boobs ... Landcruiser .... Got it. Seems like a very simple list .... is that a Landcrusier thing.
Yup, keep it simple easier to fix IF it ever breaks down....Fishing ... beer ... boobs ... Landcruiser .... Got it. Seems like a very simple list .... is that a Landcrusier thing.
Here's another good video that really shows exactly what happens with weight transfer.
Our van has a 280kg ball weight and although I have heavier suspension in the patrol it handles very differently without the WDH on, it lift the front of the car 15mm and lowers the rear 35mm and you feel it over every bump making the car pitch back and forth. I can only imagine what it would be like on undulating road at 100km/h, on the other hand with the WDH setup the car and can handle beautifully, no pitching or that boat feeling some people describe and the car settles by 8-10mm all round. It's truly a pleasure to tow at 100km/h, sometimes to much so in that you literally don't notice it there until you come into a sweeping bend a little to hot.
Our van has a 280kg ball weight and although I have heavier suspension in the patrol it handles very differently without the WDH on, it lift the front of the car 15mm and lowers the rear 35mm and you feel it over every bump making the car pitch back and forth. I can only imagine what it would be like on undulating road at 100km/h, on the other hand with the WDH setup the car and can handle beautifully, no pitching or that boat feeling some people describe and the car settles by 8-10mm all round. It's truly a pleasure to tow at 100km/h, sometimes to much so in that you literally don't notice it there until you come into a sweeping bend a little to hot.
Mines a 2007 wagon with Nissan towbar and I've had no problems at all over about 10-12000 km, my pop has had Nissan wagons as long as I can remember and always towed big van with a WDH with no issues, his current patrol has done 110000 all towing.
Fishing ... beer ... boobs ... Landcruiser .... Got it. Seems like a very simple list .... is that a Landcrusier thing.
How did I miss this
..................Fishing.....beer..... boobs........Landcruiser
..Mrs Palmer......:fish2:.......................dream on.......:drum:...............:flypig::focus:........it's all academic, depends if you have the kitchen sink in the back and 300kg on the hitch or 2 ctns of XXXX and 300kg dragging behind it will all be differn't...................seen some shocking combinations on this trip.....scary even.
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Im towing a 3t Expanda with a mighty Navara 550 ... great car, comfortable, beautiful, pulls like a train (sorry, off topic there)
Ive got factory towbar and Reece V1 WDH. The Navara has a 450kg constant load spring pack on the rear. The rides a little harsh due to the springs, but certainly no other issues. Im an anti WDH user. Im using the adjustable hitch insert to level the van up, and the bars with minimum tension just to reduce the lurching, not distributing as such. My car moves minimal at the back and front without the WDH, because of the bigger springs and steel bulbar and winch up the front balancing it all out
All in all tows reasonably nicely
Coming in a bit late on this but am going through the process at the moment of potentially getting a rear bar fitted to the tow vehicle the front runner is the Kaymar bar but I have had multiple discussions with them as the bar also has the built in Tow Bar included.
They advised that as the WDH put's a lot of strain on the tow bar/ rear bar which in turn in connected to the chassis and has been known to twist and or damage the setup, they do not warrant the use of these (WDH) with their product.
On the side I did also ask them if they are aware of any customers using a WDH with their bar and to that they advised yes off course
I currently use a Hayman Reece WDH with my setup and it works a treat, although as per the above conversations, I recently had some more work done to the suspension and installed airbags and the WDH on the previous setting is loose, the van and vehicle level up nicely, as @Crusty181 mentioned I will probably still use the WDH but not at it's previous load.
They advised that as the WDH put's a lot of strain on the tow bar/ rear bar which in turn in connected to the chassis and has been known to twist and or damage the setup, they do not warrant the use of these (WDH) with their product.
On the side I did also ask them if they are aware of any customers using a WDH with their bar and to that they advised yes off course
I currently use a Hayman Reece WDH with my setup and it works a treat, although as per the above conversations, I recently had some more work done to the suspension and installed airbags and the WDH on the previous setting is loose, the van and vehicle level up nicely, as @Crusty181 mentioned I will probably still use the WDH but not at it's previous load.
Off topic is fine when it comes to the 550, such Nissan stopped production of that engine. Speaking to my Nissan dealer he reckons the demand in the used market is so high for the 550 you can auction it when it comes time to sell. He had one on the lot and buyers fighting for it, sold it at sticker price!
I think i will upgrade the rear suspension as you have, when empty it rides nice but have notice it wallow when it has a decent load is in the tub.
Nissan have gone to great lengths to soften up the a$re end of the Navara for soft ladies end of the ute buyer market. The springs and shocks are tiny. Mine was almost on the bump stops within 8 months of buying it. I got the Pedders 3210kg GVM upgrade, and although its early days, seems to be a reasonable compromise. Rides harder, but feels confident on the road
My Colorado was the same @Crusty181 and I reckon every other wagon set up is similar.
I agree crusty.
I'm starting to think that WDH should be there to assist if required. I wonder if WDH are being used by some as bandaids for springs that are old or soft, poor loading of van and tug....then cos the tug feels like normal to drive hit the hwy like there's nothing behind them, at speeds they shouldn't. I agree that suspension should be reviewed first.
On a side note @Drover i called the suspension guys...unable to upgrade suspension. Can only get the same already fitted.
I'm starting to think that WDH should be there to assist if required. I wonder if WDH are being used by some as bandaids for springs that are old or soft, poor loading of van and tug....then cos the tug feels like normal to drive hit the hwy like there's nothing behind them, at speeds they shouldn't. I agree that suspension should be reviewed first.
On a side note @Drover i called the suspension guys...unable to upgrade suspension. Can only get the same already fitted.
The sag of suspension when towing is not fixable by heavier springs. Because the tow bar on most cars protrudes well beyond the rear wheels, it creates a fulcrum (pivot) out of the rear axle, so the tow ball weight is not only causing the rear suspension to go down,it is also causing the front of the car to go up. Simple physics. If the rear suspension was solid, no springs, the rear would still go down and the front go up, much like a seesaw. Strong springs only mask the sagging. They do not stop the reduction of pressure on the front wheels and remember the front wheels do the majority of steering and braking, so any reduction of downward force on the front could have catastrophic results.
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There are polar opposite views on these things thats for sure. I have weight sensing proportional rear braking ..... in my case anything that tricks the car into thinking there is less weight adversely reduces the braking capacity of the car, so its a no brainer for me
Except when you feel it hitting the bump stops then you know new springs are required and not the softies that it came with.........of course your correct in your summary @crackacoldie but decent springs and shocks all round do make a more capable tug and if a WDH is required then less stress is put on the vehicle................if they were actually built to tow the specs quoted then a WDH wouldn't be needed, would it.................... but it is a combination of so many variables which boil down to weight in the end and many so called capable tugs aren't because of the loads they have upon them.
Not a mention of your Suby in the suspension listings @McKenzie but your new 17 shouldn't be a worry on your Subaru, I was amazed at what I saw recently hooked on behind one, was near 20ft so over 2 ton but sat well.
Not a mention of your Suby in the suspension listings @McKenzie but your new 17 shouldn't be a worry on your Subaru, I was amazed at what I saw recently hooked on behind one, was near 20ft so over 2 ton but sat well.
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this is a most curious thread, and a very interesting read
I am almost scared for a few people out there, as their Tow vehicle is definitely not suited for what they are doing in some ways
my explanation of my above statement...................
I have a 1999 GU Nissan Patrol 4.2Lturbo diesel intercooled, 5 speed manual
bull bar, HID driving lights, winch (for pulling toyboatas) scrub bars
265/65/R16 mud terrain tyres, Tough Dog springs and shockies, and Air Bags
my car weighs in at 3100Kgs (give or take)
when I hook up my Van - 16.49.1
NO upward movement on the front, and NO downward movement on the rear
when I hooked up my fathers 21" Coramal
No upward movement on the front, and NO downward movement on the rear
I have towed both through peak hour traffic in Perth, and on some highways, once moving, you forget they are there
so, NO I do not have / use / desire a WDH
you have to take into consideration some little things manufactures do now days
cars have ALWAYS had their weight evenly distributed over front and rear
older 4WDs have always had a front bias for weight
newer 4wds are evenly balanced with their weight now...............
my thoughts..............., and
pass that popcorn over I want someopcorn:
I am almost scared for a few people out there, as their Tow vehicle is definitely not suited for what they are doing in some ways
my explanation of my above statement...................
I have a 1999 GU Nissan Patrol 4.2Lturbo diesel intercooled, 5 speed manual
bull bar, HID driving lights, winch (for pulling toyboatas) scrub bars
265/65/R16 mud terrain tyres, Tough Dog springs and shockies, and Air Bags
my car weighs in at 3100Kgs (give or take)
when I hook up my Van - 16.49.1
NO upward movement on the front, and NO downward movement on the rear
when I hooked up my fathers 21" Coramal
No upward movement on the front, and NO downward movement on the rear
I have towed both through peak hour traffic in Perth, and on some highways, once moving, you forget they are there
so, NO I do not have / use / desire a WDH
you have to take into consideration some little things manufactures do now days
cars have ALWAYS had their weight evenly distributed over front and rear
older 4WDs have always had a front bias for weight
newer 4wds are evenly balanced with their weight now...............
my thoughts..............., and
pass that popcorn over I want some
opcorn:
The bum of the commodore sagged with our vans ball weight at 220kg. WDH needed with plenty of tension. The cruiser doesn't like it's balls on the ground, so I can't even get the WDH to work (no tension full stop) it was still about 15mm above level at the ball, last time I measured before we left Perth.
Just goes to show it comes down to the vehicle and the van. Funny enough without the WDH and the commodore empty, the rear tyres of the commodore were only 10mm of scrubbing despite being loaded within specs! Car specs are rubbish as the tow ball weight doesn't have any relationship to safe operation of the combined car/van. Needs a new law I thinks.
Just goes to show it comes down to the vehicle and the van. Funny enough without the WDH and the commodore empty, the rear tyres of the commodore were only 10mm of scrubbing despite being loaded within specs! Car specs are rubbish as the tow ball weight doesn't have any relationship to safe operation of the combined car/van. Needs a new law I thinks.