Chassis Trying not to overload (ATM/Max Ball Weight) 20.63-1OB

[skippy]

Hello all

I have a feeling that Jayco is not being generous enough with the amount of weight they allow on their compliance plates.

As some of your might know I tow with a RG Colorado which has a tow capacity of 3500 and max ball weight of 350kg. Which can easily handle towing a 20.63-1OB and far exceeds the towing requirements of this van.

Our 20.63-1OB compliance plate reads as below:
ATM 2838
GTM 2679
TARE 2363
BALL EMPTY 157
MAX BALL 206 7.26% of the ATM. This is also less than the standard 10% - 15% of the ATM.
AXLE LOAD 2700


Tare 2363 + 20kg for 2 gas bots + 240kg 3x h2o tanks (80L ea) + 56kg for bat, bike rack, other extras = 2679kg GTM

ATM 2838kg - 2679kg GTM = 159 kg

159kg - forgotten battery at factory 40kg, we are now left with 119kg to load the van.

By the time you factor in the twin factory bike rack plus bikes 10kg, generator 40kg we are left with 69kg.

How can we pack so light with a family of 4, clothing, food, drinks, tools, bedding, chairs, beer, fishing gear?

After being on this forum for a while I have read many articles where people have had their compliance plate changed by Jayco. Has anyone or does anyone know of ATM's being increased or max ball weight being increased also by Jayco. I am hoping that Jacyo would change the ATM and max ball weight to get closer to my cars towing limits.

Any information about who I can talk to about this would be greatly appreciated because my Jayco dealer in Perth has advised us that compliance plate changing does not happen.

 

[Redbarn]

Hi Skippy

I had the max ball weight on my 2014 Starcraft 20:62-2 OB changed from 228 to 290 (I asked for 270) as it seemed a bit low. My ATM is 2891. The dealer sent the old plate back when the van arrived, Jayco sent a new one within a week, which I screwed back on. There was no issue getting this done, the dealer was more than happy to accommodate.

Cheers
Rob

 

[skippy]

Hi Skippy
I had the max ball weight on my 2014 Starcraft 20:62-2 OB changed from 228 to 290 (I asked for 270) as it seemed a bit low. My ATM is 2891. The dealer sent the old plate back when the van arrived, Jayco sent a new one within a week, which I screwed back on. There was no issue getting this done, the dealer was more than happy to accommodate.
Cheers
Rob

Thanks for the info Rob
Asking for 270 ball weight and getting 290.... I bet you were over the moon with that increase.
That's what I was hopping for as well but to no avail.
Any idea who I can contact at Jayco to get this looked at by any chance @Redbarn

Thanks

Paul

 

[Redbarn]

Sorry Paul, no idea re. Jayco, dealer handled the whole thing. Didn't seem to phase them at all, seemed to be something they do frequently.

 

[brotys]

Howdy how about ringing Jayco factory in Melbourne and asking for Some one in technical or email them see what they can do for you . Got any other jayco dealers over there that can help you out?

 

[skippy]

Hey @brotys

I tried ringing Melbourne today but the people I needed to talk to weren't there today apparently. Rang once in the morning and then again in the arvo but with no luck.
I will try again on Monday and see what the factory has to say because there are no other dealers in WA.... Don't laugh there is only 1 dealer in WA

Nothing against the dealer over here in WA as it's seems no one has ever asked them to do this before hence they said it can't be done. Never the less I will be calling them again on Monday with a bit more info hopefully from the members of this forum. I am hoping with a bit more info they will liaise with Melbourne and remove the issue.

Cheers

Paul

 

[dagree]

@skippy ... Look for @rodney a member on here.
He's one of the service reps at Caravanland. Maybe he can help or put you in the right direction.

 

[skippy]

:eagerness:Thanks @dagree I will have a look for him and drop him a line on Monday

Cheers

Paul

 

[Bmhdg76]

I still don't understand how a vans carrying capacity can change from van to van. I mean if I bought my 14.44-4 with batteries and solar etc from the dealer all loaded how is that going to be any different to than if I did it myself? It would still be the same chassis and suspension loading etc. so I believe there should be a MAXimum carrying capacity for each van that is the same.

BJ.

 

[crustt]

I think all the changes to the plate can happen before the van is registered, once registered it's to hard.

 

[achjimmy]

I still don't understand how a vans carrying capacity can change from van to van. I mean if I bought my 14.44-4 with batteries and solar etc from the dealer all loaded how is that going to be any different to than if I did it myself? It would still be the same chassis and suspension loading etc. so I believe there should be a MAXimum carrying capacity for each van that is the same.

BJ.

Your right, as long as it stays in under the axle/brake loading it shouldn't matter. But I guess they try and control overloading causing unbalancing? Ie any 16 ft chassis should have 12" brakes and 2000kg springs so the allowable payload on a 16.49-1 would be a lot more than a fully optioned 16.49-3 but they are not. I figure they don't want you being able to out nearly 500kg to the front or the back of the van?

 

[Redbarn]

Hi Crustt, I was told at the time that it is only the ATM that goes on the registration (in QLD) as I had a concern about driving with no plate, was told changing the max ball weight wouldn't affect registration.

 

[Burnsy]

Hi Crustt, I was told at the time that it is only the ATM that goes on the registration (in QLD) as I had a concern about driving with no plate, was told changing the max ball weight wouldn't affect registration.

Correct.

 

[rodney]

Ball weight will only become an issue when and if you have an issue with your towbar system

 

[cruza driver]

Just putting it out there but, I wonder if "weights and measures'' would have anything to say about vans getting delivered with incorrect compliance plate information. Particularly with incorrect ball weight information.

Has anyone checked their ball weight from brand new against the plate and if so does it indicate the correct information.

Just a thought.

 

[skippy]

Sorry Paul, no idea re. Jayco, dealer handled the whole thing. Didn't seem to phase them at all, seemed to be something they do frequently.

@Redbarn
That's what I have heard from multiple eastern states dealers. It just seems unusual that no one has queried the Jayco dealer here before in WA.

Howdy how about ringing Jayco factory in Melbourne and asking for Some one in technical or email them see what they can do for you . Got any other jayco dealers over there that can help you out?

@brotys
I am going to ring them again on Monday and hopefully get some assistance that will help with this issue.

I still don't understand how a vans carrying capacity can change from van to van. I mean if I bought my 14.44-4 with batteries and solar etc from the dealer all loaded how is that going to be any different to than if I did it myself? It would still be the same chassis and suspension loading etc. so I believe there should be a MAXimum carrying capacity for each van that is the same.
BJ.

@Bmhdg76
That is exactly it!
The same vans should have the same max load (ATM). Providing they have the same rims, tyres, axle and chassis.

I think all the changes to the plate can happen before the van is registered, once registered it's to hard.

@crustt
That's what I would have thought but after talking to numerous members on this forum, this appears not to be the case. Maybe it is just too hard in WA.

Your right, as long as it stays in under the axle/brake loading it shouldn't matter. But I guess they try and control overloading causing unbalancing? Ie any 16 ft chassis should have 12" brakes and 2000kg springs so the allowable payload on a 16.49-1 would be a lot more than a fully optioned 16.49-3 but they are not. I figure they don't want you being able to out nearly 500kg to the front or the back of the van?

@achjimmy
This is true what you are saying, have max load (ATM) on the plate but supply from factory, ball weight scales, so that the onus is on the van owner to check the load is distributed evenly. This would stop all issues arriving from such low max load (ATM).

Hi Crustt, I was told at the time that it is only the ATM that goes on the registration (in QLD) as I had a concern about driving with no plate, was told changing the max ball weight wouldn't affect registration.

@Redbarn
That is the same here in WA but what happens if the rules change at later date and then our van are not compliant with ADR - Australian Design Regulations.

Ball weight will only become an issue when and if you have an issue with your towbar system

@rodney
Not quite with you Rodney, are you trying to say it only become a problem if the car cannot tow the max ball weight?

Just putting it out there but, I wonder if "weights and measures'' would have anything to say about vans getting delivered with incorrect compliance plate information. Particularly with incorrect ball weight information.
Has anyone checked their ball weight from brand new against the plate and if so does it indicate the correct information.
Just a thought.

@cruza driver
I am not sure but I will give them a call on Monday and see what they have to say about it. Would that be state guidelines or federal guidelines? Next weekend I am emptying the van and getting it weighed and weighing the ball weight. I am soooooo looking forward to that. Not:doh:

 

[jandl]

I had some success from Jayco agreeing to increase my payload to 400kgs. I rung the factory and they didn't really want to speak to me, kept saying contact your dealer. From what I could gather from Nick at Caravanland there is one particular person who is the go to person in relation to my request at the factory. Nick eventually tracked this person down and Jayco agreed with my request to increase the ATM to 1990kg.

 

[rodney]

I was referring to the earlier comment about the tow ball weight on the papers even as far as I know the mermaids aren't checking that here
The ball weight dependent of van layout can be hard to achieve my van I have I don't have a hope of getting to as I put an extra gas bottle threeJerry's of diesel and battery

 

[skippy]

I had some success from Jayco agreeing to increase my payload to 400kgs. I rung the factory and they didn't really want to speak to me, kept saying contact your dealer. From what I could gather from Nick at Caravanland there is one particular person who is the go to person in relation to my request at the factory. Nick eventually tracked this person down and Jayco agreed with my request to increase the ATM to 1990kg.

I don't think it will be a problem as long as the van is engineered to carry that weight then it shouldn't be a problem. Glad to hear your happy with your extra payload Jandl. Just hope I can get the same outcome too.

I was referring to the earlier comment about the tow ball weight on the papers even as far as I know the mermaids aren't checking that here
The ball weight dependent of van layout can be hard to achieve my van I have I don't have a hope of getting to as I put an extra gas bottle threeJerry's of diesel and battery

The mermaids are not checking here yet in WA but it's not far away as through work I have been advised that it's about 2 to 3 months away and there going to start checking. I want to make sure that I am legal and I can guarantee if I am over I know I am going to get pulled over and read the riot act if I am overloaded.
I use to carry fuel on the A frame as well for years but now it's on the back of the ute after being made aware of ball weight on this forum.

 

[jandl]

I too want to keep everything legal so the extra 100kgs was critical for me. Good luck Skippy, hope you get what you are after.