Steel Bullbars

[Moto Moto]

Not long ago at work we were given a safety bulletin (from another company) about the current Hilux. It stated if the Hilux had a steel bar AND winch fitted, then no passengers were allowed in the car because the front axle limit had been reached. The solution was to carry sand bags in the tray behind the axle, then a passenger could also get in the Hilux (crazy!).

So the other day i decided to weigh the front axle on the BT with the ARB bar on it.

The limit on the front is 1480kg. With just me in the car the front axle weight came in at 1420kg, only 60kg's left! I have been really keen on a winch, but now not sure if i can do it once the family are in the car.

I am suprised that companies like ARB and TJM don't make customers aware of this, surely its something they would check in designing the bullbars.

Anyway, just thought i would put it out there, keep an eye on the limits of the front and rear axles, not just the total GVM (especially if you have a Hilux:whistle.

 

[cruza driver]

I have heard about this with Hilux's before but not the BT's that very interesting, I wonder if there is a solution to the problem or if it ever gets checked if the most unfortunate may happen?

 

[simond]

Hear what you are saying MM,

I have been tossing up whether to go the bull bar or high loop nudge bar
After all I just want to be able to put the spotties back on & aerial. So high loop nudge may be the way to go, now you have bought this weight issue to my attention.

 

[Moto Moto]

I just went to ARB to order my canopy and enquired about the bullbar and winch issue. They played dumb and said upgraded suspension would solve the problem. I said it would solve the droop in suspension, but not the legalities.

Funny thing is the rear axle still is about 800kg's below its limit so if you weighed the whole car you would consider yourself safe and way under the total cars GVM.

I have been looking at mounting two jerry can holders in the rear just behing the wheel arch next to the tail gate, this plus the canopy will take some weight off the front axle some what. Once i have it all mounted plus the canopy i will weigh the front again and then decide on the winch.

My bet is most IFS 4wd's out there with a steel bar AND winch (and even dual battery if it fits) will be at the limits, and most people are unaware. Every second Hilux i see has a steel bar and winch. Kind of wish i was unaware now..................................:frown:

 

[zerosecta]

This is why ill be going with a hidden winch mount and winch keeping the original bar... Big steel front bull bars are over rated if you ask me and companies like arb havent bothered to put any effort into making there bars look a little different so that they match the newer rounded cars...

As if arb would tell you that if you fitted one of thier bars that you wouldnt be able to carry any passengers just before you about to buy one

 

[Matty4]

When I get my Jeep and if I decide to fit a winch, something like this will be on top of my list, rather than a full blown steel bar.

 

[zerosecta]

Yip, thats what im talking about... Way of the future . And the only other you may need is a nudge bar for lights etc.

 

[achjimmy]

Yep I fear it is the way of the future as well. But do a search for a few modern vechiles after animal strikes there is nothing in the forward area behind lights grill etc. the vehicles take he blow okay they just don't let you continue.

 

[straydingo]

Even in our last trip, I found many roos on the side of the road ready to pounce one way of the other, plus several herds of cattle. For traveling in Aust I feel a bar is a necessary item - there is just no protection and can mean the difference between sitting on the side of the road for a length of time, or limping into the next town.
(just my 2c worth)

...doesn't address the axle problem though. Maybe manufacturers figure that its a ute, therefore will 'always' have 800kg in back (either a work load or canopy/drawers/tools/kit etc)?????? How would a van or camper ball weight impact the front - would it also reduce the weight on the axle?

 

[zerosecta]

Umm, the question is, did you hit an animal during your trip and so be in a possition to say - thank goodness we actually had the bar? My guess from your post is probably not....

Everyone for them self i guess - but i rekon probably less than 5% of the vehicles out there carriying the extra weight an inefficiency of a heavy bar actually every hit anything...

On top of that if you where to hit something, the main thing you want protected is your radiator.... An i can garentee you that a winch mount with winch hidden behind the standard plastic bar will do just that without to much trouble...

In fact i am extremely supprised such a product isnt on the shelf and readily available for most 4x4 in all 4x4 stores. Lord knows id have had a winch in my prado by now if they were. First aus based manufacturer\fabricator the starts selling these is going to become rich fast me thinks

 

[straydingo]

Sorry, let me rephrase that:
"For traveling in Aust I feel a bar is a necessary item on my vehicles"

No I didn't hit anything, but that was cos as the TAC ad said - I cut off 5, plus the bar wasn't fitted at that time (I've also had insurance for 23 years, but never had to use it to be able to say 'thanks goodness I had it' ) One cow did run right in front of us as we went past a herd, but I had slowed down enough that we could avoid it, and the other side of the road was empty.

I wouldn't even put it as high as 5% that have hit an animal. With the way cars are built now, is it really the radiator as the main thing? The winch might protect the radiator for a straight on strike, but many are corner strikes, which will still crumple the front end pretty severely to be undriveable. On the flip side, bullbars do a hell of a lot of damage to the pedestrians in the city areas.......

 

[Moto Moto]

This wasn't intended to be an anti steel bullbar thread at all. I know it is a heated topic alone. Every one has their own preferences, and for me its steel all the way. Always has been as long as i've had 4wd's.

The main intent was to let people know the front axle limitations on most modern 4wd's.

Safe travels everyoneeace:

 

[brookes2622]

+1 Steel bullbar because without it this would have been much worse ... Grey Kangaroo at 100kph.

 

[Feldty]

I fitted an alloy ECB bar to my Nav. I will check the front axle weights and capacities when I check my van weights out over the next couple of weeks, but the bar felt fairly light before it was fitted. I think the alloy bars look great and help solve the weight issue. A lot of alloy bars will not allow you to fit a winch, but ECB do manufacture an alloy winch bar that simply allows the winch to bolt to the chassis as appose to the bar itself.



If you don't like the look of the polished alloy, they also do an alloy powder coated version.

 

[achjimmy]

Sadly Roo's and other big animals don’t always line up for the radiator when committing suicide. Roos especially like to hop in the air! That’s the reason you see strikes up around the grill, headlights and sadly even in the windscreen on sedans with fatal consequences. i am with dingo i havent hit a animal for years but i havent had an insurance claim either.

Re front axle load, IMO i think its being overstated, i understand the legalities and some not wishing to test it but, The front bearings and driveline components on most fourbies are huge and well over engineered, yes the springing may be questionable but that is generally uprated.

 

[achjimmy]

In fact i am extremely supprised such a product isnt on the shelf and readily available for most 4x4 in all 4x4 stores. Lord knows id have had a winch in my prado by now if they were. First aus based manufacturer\fabricator the starts selling these is going to become rich fast me thinks

I am pretty sure these are avaiable for the pajero, they are in europe as b/bars are now banned there.

 

[cruza driver]

:focus: to the original post about weight limits imposed on modern 4x4's and accessories fitted affecting the front axle. We could maybe start a new thread on the bullbar debate, as there has been some good points raised here

:tea:

 

[Moto Moto]

Just did an experiment - Mythbusters style.

I put a 30kg sand bag on the bullbar and got one of my work mates to jump in the car with me (about the same weight as the missus and both kids combined LOL) and weighed the front axle again. To my pleasant suprise it came in 10kg under the limit. When i added a sandbag to the back behind the axle i was 20kg under the limit.

So i am happy enough that i will be legal and the hunt for a cheap winch begins Look out Super Crap Auto/Fleabay here i come...........................

 

[brookes2622]

There are some cheapies about but my advice is to go rope if you can. Save quite a bit of weight.

 

[MolongMick]

Just did an experiment - Mythbusters style.

I put a 30kg sand bag on the bullbar and got one of my work mates to jump in the car with me (about the same weight as the missus and both kids combined LOL) and weighed the front axle again. To my pleasant suprise it came in 10kg under the limit. When i added a sandbag to the back behind the axle i was 20kg under the limit.

So i am happy enough that i will be legal and the hunt for a cheap winch begins Look out Super Crap Auto/Fleabay here i come...........................

Hey MM, Opposite Lock Orange have Tmax 8500 winches for $650 I think they had about 5 on the floor.