Toy Hauler Some weights and measures

[pauljygrant]

As some of you might be aware, I have had the occasional issue with weights, especially ball weight, made difficult because we sometimes load the Basestation up with a JetSki, but other times travel fairly light in the back.
Anyway, took the Basestation down to our local landscape yard and used their weigh bridge (not completely accurate but gives an indication of what's happening)

Navara Only without Basestation(driver, no passengers, full tank diesel, dual batteries, canopy, heavy duty ARB rear suspension, no other load)
Front axle 1280kg
Rear axle 1230kg
Both axles 2460kg
GVM 2805kg

GVM-2460=345kg!

Navara with Basestation (Basestation with gas bottles, BBQ, chairs etc, but no water, clothes or food)
Front axle 1130kg
Rear axle 1620kg
Both axles 2760kg (2760-2460=300kg ball weight)
Basestation only 2240kg (plus ball weight of 300kg = 2540kg)
Basestation plus rear car axle 3850kg

Tare 2552kg
GTM 2950kg
ATM 3192kg
Ball weight 242-307kg

From these weights, the ball weight is approx 300kg. The Hayman Reese scales give a higher weight of approx 320-330kg so not very accurate.

The Navara is at its own maximum when the 300kg ball weight is added, - no room for any passengers!

If I load the Basestation, whilst it gets nearer the cars 3T limit, it reduces the ball weight slightly so gives marginally more weight carrying capacity in the ute, but at the risk of sway if the ball weight drops too low compared to overall caravan weight.

Long term, a change of ute with greater GVM and towball weight is the answer but until then, some careful packing and weight loading will be needed. Also decided that since everything is at its maximum, might be better to use a WDH. Looking seriously at the Andersen hitch for sway control, as recommended by Base23.

Paul

 

[NoWorries]

This is a real problem for most Ute drivers the Towing capacity is flawed.
This is why most people with large vans end up in a Cruiser, Patrol or US Pickup and even the Cruiser/Patrol sometimes needs a GVM upgrade.
Can you do a GVM upgrade on the Navara ?

 

[straydingo]

@pauljygrant to compound that, doesn't the nav also have a sliding scale on the gvm vs towball? (Like my pathfinder did)
Up at 300kg on the ball you lose 200kg off the gvm or something like that...?

 

[pauljygrant]

Yes, the Navara does have the same reduction in GVM with high ball weights when using the Nissan towbar.

 

[Dobbie]

I meant to look all this up from my spreadsheet...but didn't.

Apologies...will try tomorrow.

The Nissans definitely have a sliding reduction, depending on actual ball weight. Affects total payload on the vehicle.

 

[pauljygrant]

The reduction in GVM with increasing ball weight

 

[Smergen]

Can you do a GVM upgrade on the Navara ?

Good points mate. But don't forget, the GVM upgrade doesn't change the vehicles GCM. So if you are close to it @pauljygrant upgrading the GVM won't solve your weight issues.

Well at least that's my understanding of it.

 

[Bushman]

Good points mate. But don't forget, the GVM upgrade doesn't change the vehicles GCM. So if you are close to it @pauljygrant upgrading the GVM won't solve your weight issues.

Well at least that's my understanding of it.

Yes you are correct there @Smergen

 

[Bushman]

The current Navara which claims 3.5 ton tow capacity has a payload reduction of 410kg at maximum tow rate.
Unfortunately most vehicles are similar in this regard.

It's always interesting in van parks/camps etc when you see the amount of crap the people pull of vans/tow vehicles!
Even more scary is some of the tow combinations

 

[Drover]

Pretty sure the only vehicle which doesn't have a tow ball reduction is the Cruiser, everyone else has to deduct.......With those figures I would dare say your maxxed out the kgs most of the time, only thing to do is leave everyone at home and get your beer and bait delivered on site...................Looked at heaps of figures and I would hazard to say that any van loaded at 3t or above really needs more than a 3.5t towing cap vehicle to drag it around, I have worked the figures for my Colorado and at 3.5t tow cap, when loaded up with the usual gear a 2.8t van dragging behind is okay but no more, gives a small amount of Kgs to play with and I think this applies to most set ups.
Dumping stuff like extra fuel tanks, steel wheels, gas bottles, all those little heavy things like extra jacks, stands, ladders can make a change in the scale's result.........My annex weighs about 40kgs, stays at home.

 

[Dobbie]

I checked as far as I could and found the same....Houston, you could have a problem.

In our case, with a two ton van and a patrol....we're closer than I had anticipated but within the payload limits. We'd be totally fine if we didn't have to take that sliding reduction into consideration.

Maybe we should calculate it the way everyone else seems to...

Eg....I have a 2 ton van with a tow ball weight of 195...my car can tow 3.5 ton and my tow ball weight can be up to 280....so that means I can load up with everything I might want or need ...in fact, I can add another ton easily.

:flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig:


At least, we're being responsible by checking and doing it properly.

Good luck with it.

 

[Johnanbev]

Hi Drover, I also have a RG Colorado crew cab auto trans. Tare mass 2050kg
For exercise let us assume the Tare is 2100kg.
2100
+ 70 fuel
+ 200 (2X Pax)
= 2370kg basic mass
Let's add max allowable tow ball mass
+ 350
= 2720kg basic operating mass
GVM = 3150kg = 430kg difference

My RV is a 21.65-4 OB Silverline
Tare is 2738kg
+ 600 payload
= 3338kg ATM

3338 minus 350 (ball mass)
= 2988kg GVM

2988 van GVM + 2720 truck basic operating mass = 5708kg GCM

Max GCM is 6000kg
Therefore I can add 292kg of extra pax. anexes, generators whatever and still be legal.
Whether I would or not is another thing.
What on earth do you have in your truck to have to leave so much stuff behind? or am I missing something here?
Regards John

 

[Dobbie]

If you're worried about @Drover ....he carries his workshop on the Colorado.....just in case he catches up with some of us who need some help.

On a serious note, what's your tow ball weight....actual, real weight as measured, not the fictitious one on the plate?

and :welcome:

 

[Johnanbev]

Tow ball weight is 340kg with 2 tanks full of water (164kg), forward of the axles, and at least 60kg in the grey water tank aft of the axles.
I also carry the equipment to initially set up camp in the front boot, I can keep the whole thing balanced by moving the water around as necessary.
Normally i would not have a requirement for so much fresh water, but is nice to know I can fill up and still be legal.
Thanks for the welcome.
John

 

[Drover]

Mines a cab/chassis with a steel tray and alloy canopy, once you add a tow bar, roof rack, bull bar, fridge, beer, aux battery, solar panel, kayaks recovery gear, tool box, fish feeding equipment, beer, some empty water and fuel jerry's that may be full at times, genny, all just the usual camping junk,table, chair, side awning, beer, weber, it adds up, supposed to have a 1t carry cap, one day I might weigh mine and just see, one day.....But the scales is really the only way to see if the base line weights are correct for cars like vans the tare is a mystical figure that may only be found on day 1 after that it increases.

But your figuring is good, a couple of hundred kg's can be eaten up very easily, but who would want to go to max weight anyway, they get very, very thirsty when at full loads.

 

[Dobbie]

Yep. Agree.

That's a high tow ball weight.....and, as you've said, it's always better to have some sort of margin with weights.

I cringe daily when I see just about one in four caravans obviously grossly overweight, and another one in four very close to that.

 

[Johnanbev]

OMG Drover! Dobbie was right you have got everything.
Can't see the kitchen sink listed!
Re power, I put a SW chip in the engine a couple of years back, it raised the power to aprox. 174kW,
and the touque to 595Nm. Economy improved also.

 

[pauljygrant]

With the Colorado do they deduct from the GVM for heavy tow ball weights? I have to reduce my GVM by 200kg when the tow ball weight is 300kg = 500kg lost from my Navara GVM when Basestation is attached.

 

[Drover]

Most vehicles your tow ball weight is part of your GVM, if you have a 1t load cap and your van is 250kg on the ball then it is deducted from the payload, it's part of the weight which your vehicle has to support, thats why most 3.5t tow cap vehicles aren't capable in the real world...............'Çruiser's I believe can , a hidden item which rarely gets a mention is the axle weights are the governing part of what you can carry, a Colorado has something like 1700kg (roughly) per axle where some other vehicles have 1700kg rear but only 1400kg front this is are where they start to determine what a vehicle can carry, upgrades to suspension won't change these axle loadings. It is easy to get lost.

 

[Johnanbev]

Hi pauljygrant, Short answer no, another way of looking at what Drover says above is that the ball weight is part of the payload of the truck.
There is not any mention in the Colorado manual of reducing the GVM by any further amount more than the ball weight. Max load on the rear axle is 1850kg