Electrical Pin 2 on 12 pin plug

dugite57

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Nov 18, 2015
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Further to my other post re Anderson plug, I also note that the Jayco diagram states that pin 2 on the 12 pin plug is a +12vs supply from battery, black 3mm2 AWG13 wire to be connected direct to battery with a 20A fuse. My car's default wiring for the black is reverse lights. Anyway, does anyone know what does this wire power?
I'm curious given there's also the pink wire on pin 9 for fridge +12v supply direct from battery on 10mm2 and 30 amp fuse (this pin 9 and pin 10 earth I'll be doing with 13.5mm2 and Aderson plug).

Thanks

Vince
 

willobee

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Apr 8, 2015
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Hi @dugite57 have a look at this in particular step 2 and see if that is what you are looking for
 

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boots33

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Pin 2 has always officially be designated as reverse lights from when the 7 pin plug was first introduced a few decades ago. However with pin 5 taken for electric brakes this left only pin 2 available for caravaners to supply power to their vans.

Pin 2 became the defacto standard for 12v supply even though still to this day the official standard lists pin 2 as reverse lights.

Jayco, wanting to have maximum compatibility with vehicles on the road continue to supply their plugs wired to to the defacto standard. At some point they will no doubt move the 12v supply to the heavier pins available on the 12 pin plug (where they should be) but for the moment they are sticking to what they know.is more common.

The rated current for the 12 pin plugs are around 15A for the small Pins and 35A for the larger ones, though you would most likely see some melting if you ran those sorts of currents for any extended length of time.
 

dugite57

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So, if I'm following this correctly, on the 12 plug connection to a 2015 20.64, the small 20 amp power on pin 2 is doing nothing, and all the power for the van is coming from the 30 amp pin 9 ? So it was a waste of effort wiring it up the way Jayco states, sheeesh..... I think I'll torture myself and ring Jayco tomorrow and see if I can get them to explain what is being powered on pin 2. I'll post the results, don't hold your breath :)
 
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iarmstro

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I know this is an old post, but I spent most of a day trying to trace all this wiring.

First of all, I have a 2023 Jayco Wren caravan running a Lithium battery and a J35 BM Pro battery management system, but Jayco still use the same wiring connections.

The Pink and White wires on Pin 9 and 10 are connected directly to the fridge and NO WHERE ELSE! On your vehicle, 10 (white) needs to be grounded and 9 (pink) needs to go to either the vehicle battery or your vehicle back up battery. Note that fridge will flatten your vehicle battery in a few hours if you park for a while (found out the hard way).

The black wire on Pin 2 (7 pin side) is indeed the battery in van CHARGING WIRE, and goes under the van to a mash up junction point under the floor near the fridge. From there it splits into 3 wires. One goes in to the Electric Brake wiring harness. No idea why, unless its for breakaway brakes that the Wren doesn't have, but doesn't make sense as if the van broke away there would be no power to supply the brakes anyway.

Another goes into the rear light wiring harness. No idea what for as there is nothing back there to power from the battery, unless its for Jayco Reversing Camera.

The third connection goes to the "AUX" 12V Charging input of the J35 Battery Management System.

The reason I was studying these wires is that on previous vehicles I have used Pin 2 of the 7 pin Trailer connection (normally described as Aux or Reverse Lights) to power a Reversing/Rear View Camera, and wanted to replicate this on the Jayco.

Note, the method detailed here could also be used to allow pin 2 to be used for reversing Lights.

The reason that Jayco separated the fridge and the rest of the caravan wiring, was to stop the caravan fridge from flattening the caravan battery. With the battery management system installed on later vans, this is not possible anyway. Power goes from Pin 2 to the battery and not the other way.

So, I cut the black wire at the junction point underneath the van just before it split into 3. I then run a wire from the back of the fridge (pink wire) connection through a small hole in the floor to the 3 way split side of the cut black wire under the floor. Original connections are now restored and battery will charge from tow vehicle.

Then I was able to use the cut black wire coming from the 12 pin plug to power my reversing camera.

This forum and others was how I found out my caravan battery wasn't charging from my vehicle over the 3 times I have taken it away. Thank god previous owner had installed a solar panel on the roof.
 

Boots in Action

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I know this is an old post, but I spent most of a day trying to trace all this wiring.

First of all, I have a 2023 Jayco Wren caravan running a Lithium battery and a J35 BM Pro battery management system, but Jayco still use the same wiring connections.

The Pink and White wires on Pin 9 and 10 are connected directly to the fridge and NO WHERE ELSE! On your vehicle, 10 (white) needs to be grounded and 9 (pink) needs to go to either the vehicle battery or your vehicle back up battery. Note that fridge will flatten your vehicle battery in a few hours if you park for a while (found out the hard way).

The black wire on Pin 2 (7 pin side) is indeed the battery in van CHARGING WIRE, and goes under the van to a mash up junction point under the floor near the fridge. From there it splits into 3 wires. One goes in to the Electric Brake wiring harness. No idea why, unless its for breakaway brakes that the Wren doesn't have, but doesn't make sense as if the van broke away there would be no power to supply the brakes anyway.

Another goes into the rear light wiring harness. No idea what for as there is nothing back there to power from the battery, unless its for Jayco Reversing Camera.

The third connection goes to the "AUX" 12V Charging input of the J35 Battery Management System.

The reason I was studying these wires is that on previous vehicles I have used Pin 2 of the 7 pin Trailer connection (normally described as Aux or Reverse Lights) to power a Reversing/Rear View Camera, and wanted to replicate this on the Jayco.

Note, the method detailed here could also be used to allow pin 2 to be used for reversing Lights.

The reason that Jayco separated the fridge and the rest of the caravan wiring, was to stop the caravan fridge from flattening the caravan battery. With the battery management system installed on later vans, this is not possible anyway. Power goes from Pin 2 to the battery and not the other way.

So, I cut the black wire at the junction point underneath the van just before it split into 3. I then run a wire from the back of the fridge (pink wire) connection through a small hole in the floor to the 3 way split side of the cut black wire under the floor. Original connections are now restored and battery will charge from tow vehicle.

Then I was able to use the cut black wire coming from the 12 pin plug to power my reversing camera.

This forum and others was how I found out my caravan battery wasn't charging from my vehicle over the 3 times I have taken it away. Thank god previous owner had installed a solar panel on the roof.
Hi @iarmstro and welcome to the forum. There are many different ways to wire up your van, but IMHO, you have made it hard for yourself.
Firstly, wires pink and white (pins 9 and 10 ) carry the heavy current between tug and van are are meant to be connected directly to the 12 volt inputs of fridge (and nowhere else!!) Electrical separation from the tug battery (when vehicle engine NOT going) is usually effected with a manually inline switch or can be automatically disconnected when connected to ignition line with relay, or fridge switch, or a voltage sensitive relay in positive line between tug battery and fridge. That way, when motor is not going, power between tug battery and van fridge is cut off and fridge cannot draw current and flatten tug battery. As there are two wires involved, the active one to fridge is pink and the earth return to tug battery is the white one. No need for a separate earth!
Other pins on 12 pin plug are as follows: 1. LH turn signal, 4. RH turn signal, 5 van brakes, 6 Stop lights, 7. Rear clearance and side marker lights. Pin 3 provides the earth return for all these lights.
Now pin 2 which was normally used for reversing lights but has been sacrificed to direct power to the tug charging system your J35 Battery Management System. To keep the reversing lights on tug, it is best to run a separate line from tug battery (after cutoff relay) to pin 2 at rear of tug to provide a separate power line to your van charging system and keep the original wiring for the tug reversing lights after disconnecting from pin 2.
Pin 8 is battery pos from tug and can be used for other lights on tug, as can pins 11 and 12, . the common earth return pin 10 can provide the electrical earth return to tug. Remember, pin 3 is also earthing the lighter current from the other lights as well.

I doubt that there is a common positive wire to van brakes and lights as these are separately connected through pins 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7 with pin 3 as the earth return. There may be a line (positive) from from the 3 way split for a separate break-away system for a small battery and to power brakes in the event that van connection with tug is severed. You are correct in saying not needed for your van, but necessary for larger vans, but it appears that Jayco are using a common loom type. I have a similar connection available on my 2013 Penguin and not used. In the past, power from van battery input was prevented from drawing current from tug system because there was a power diode on the input line (through pin 2) on earlier models, but later models with the J35 system have a one way relay to do this. I hope this clears up any doubts you may have had and confirms other thoughts you had.
 
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Drover

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Yep @Boots in Action has about covered it ..................................

Couple of things though, the BM Pro charges your battery and gets it 12v feed via the AUX input on the unit, the way I read your post is you have changed that to supply power directly to your battery, not a good idea at all especially with a lithium, I would be checking that the AUX input on the BM Pro is getting a 12v feed from tug that would be why its not charging ( your previous owner could be like me and find no need for the battery to be charged from tug as solar does it all, mine has no capablity to charge from tug)................................. since it has a Lithium the BMPro will need to be a a HA or a model "D" or later I think it is though many think the B model will do it without harming the battery....... a direct supply from tug will not be good for the battery at all.

The brakes are fed by the BLUE wire thats a standard and wouldn't have a 12v feed inline with it at all, in fact with no Breakaway unit fitted the line is totally isolated from the van wiring, if an ESC system is fitted this also has a seperate feed from tug and will tap into the blue at some stage .........................

Jayco have always had the fridge supply isolated from the van battery, in earlier times the 12v feed from a 7 pin would split inside the van to go to fridge and the BMS whatever type, a diode would stop drain on van battery from fridge............ and those that run a dedicted feed via anderson plugs will fot a fridge switch or similar to shut off power when stopped.

I power my rear cam direct from van battery and run the vid cables using a 2 pin microphone socket on tug. HDMI cable used on tug as better shielding.


The new breakaway units now have no battery and get their feed from the van battery......... they changed the rules at some stage.
 
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iarmstro

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Feb 27, 2024
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Hi guys, Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe I didn't explain my wiring completely. I have connected the high current Pink wire that goes to the fridge to the original Black wire, originally connected to Pin 2 on plug. The Black wire goes directly (on one of the splits) to the Aux Input of the J35. The Aux input is exactly that an input, and no current can come from it, so, the fridge cannot drain the Van battery. Any power on the Pink wire now drives the fridge as well as charging the battery.

I flattened my tug battery back in late December last year in SE Qld. It was EXTREMELY hot and humid, and we were having trouble keeping the fridge cold, so I was leaving the van plugged to the tug while parked. Just so happened that about 3 hrs under these conditions was too long.

You might say I should have been running on gas, but you have to lift the top and set it up, so for short durations, the tug battery is fine.

I am currently setting up the tug vehicle to have a 280Ah Lithium battery in the rear with its own charge controller. This battery will be getting its power from the tug, and the output of this battery will be going to the van via Pins 9 and 10 on the plug. Tug battery can never be flattened, and stopping for a few hours will not be a problem.
 

Drover

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Can follow you now...... and of course on those rigs its not just a simple flip a clip and roof pops up either.

I wouldn't say the tug can never be flattened, as a fridge can suck a lot of juice from a battery and even with a high capacity unit like that you could have trouble bringing it back up depending how far you drive, also make sure its a LiPo4 and the controller is ignition sensitive or you will find yourself in the flat crank battery again.... Lithiums in vehicles need to be in a sealed from interior of vehicle box and vented to outside, also be aware that charging when ambient is over 30c or under 0c is not good, its something that seems to be ignored in the sales pitch and if not for the weight savings would have stayed with AGMs as lately its early morning charge only ........... also when not in use shut it down they don't like being kept at full juice when not in use.

If I was going to run the fridge from a battery in tug I would rewire the van fridge and forget about using the 12 pin, you won't want to loose any power, rub a dedicated 8 B&S cable from your aux battery to an Anderson on draw bar and the using the same size cable run direct to the fridge and at the back of fridge where the tug feed connects use another anderson to step down the cable size easily, this connection can also be used in emergency for a compressor etc as well........... The 12/7 pin set up for fridge supply is really inadequate and since we are looking at draws of the 15-20mp area you don;t want to be loosing any or getting any hot spots......

You may also need to have a look at the set up of your fridge, many are fitted wrong, with poorly fitted insulation or none at all, in fact 95% are fitted incorrectly and have poor ventilation so that the hot air doesn't escape quickly, best way to describe is the back of fridge should be fully sealed from the interior and the flow from lower vent to top vent should not be able to get down side or top of fridge, ............... Fridges that have been fitted properly can be disconnected for a few hours or more and stay cold .................... I ran from Winton to Julia Creek once with no 12v to fridge and lost 2 deg, proved my mods worked, now if my rear cam drops off line I know the fridge has lost power.

I have done a couple of fridges and improved the insulation and insulated the outer wall as well, fridges run way, way better and pull down the temp faster than ever ...............
 
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Boots in Action

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Hi guys, Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe I didn't explain my wiring completely. I have connected the high current Pink wire that goes to the fridge to the original Black wire, originally connected to Pin 2 on plug. The Black wire goes directly (on one of the splits) to the Aux Input of the J35. The Aux input is exactly that an input, and no current can come from it, so, the fridge cannot drain the Van battery. Any power on the Pink wire now drives the fridge as well as charging the battery.

I flattened my tug battery back in late December last year in SE Qld. It was EXTREMELY hot and humid, and we were having trouble keeping the fridge cold, so I was leaving the van plugged to the tug while parked. Just so happened that about 3 hrs under these conditions was too long.

You might say I should have been running on gas, but you have to lift the top and set it up, so for short durations, the tug battery is fine.

I am currently setting up the tug vehicle to have a 280Ah Lithium battery in the rear with its own charge controller. This battery will be getting its power from the tug, and the output of this battery will be going to the van via Pins 9 and 10 on the plug. Tug battery can never be flattened, and stopping for a few hours will not be a problem.
Well @iarmstro , that is a novel and unconventional hookup!! And when you change things so radically (IMHO), there are always going to be issues.
Firstly, pin 2 on the van and the tug connection is only rated to 15A and as your fridge alone will be drawing at least 16A or more, this would soon end up with melted/warped connections. Not to mention the line to charge the battery AND run the fridge at the same time!! That is without any power in/out from a high current lithium battery storage system. The high current pins 9 and 10 are rated to 35A, but even they can cause problems and melt if connection is not always tight. If you are going to run any high current devices between tug and van, the only way to go is suitable heavy cable and with an Anderson plug. These have different ratings for current and always have a very positive connection. I have my fridge connection from tug to van as a separate line with Anderson plug connectors rated at 50A and do not use pins 9 and 10 for power to fridge..
As you are also going to have a lithium battery involved to supply battery power between tug and van requirements, careful consideration should be given to the recharging problem. Let's say that you have left your vehicle with van connected and fridge still on for 3 or 4 hours with a draw of at least 16 amps. You may still have plenty of battery capacity left using about 48 to 64 amps but .....When you return and start up, your fridge is still looking for 16A and your alternator is keen to pump lots of amps into the lithium battery so 60A to 80A could be coming down the wire to van. You would need to use AWG 5 or better to handle that current. Of course, if you are using a DC to DC system to charge your lithium battery, you will be able to limit this current and voltage, but this will also affect the operation of your fridge on the same line. I agree with @Drover's thinking that the separate line to fridge and van lithium battery will need to be substantial to reduce/eliminate wiring /connection problems. And alternators do get hot and bothered trying to produce high current especially at low revs or in slow moving traffic. If thinking or running 2 lithium batteries from the one alternator, I would recommend you look up on some of the sites under "Problems with alternators charging lithium batteries" to get a full understanding of what you are trying to do - if you have not already done so. Good luck!!
 

Drover

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I assumed the lithium or any aux battery in tug for that matter would be charged via a DC/DC unit and as such you wouldn't see that much down the line or things would melt, I certainly owuldn;t be using any of the small pins on a 12 pin for that sort of current...

What seems strange is the wiring for this van must have been changed for some reason, the fridge should be running off the fat pins on the 12 and the van 12v supply would be off the smaller pins, so something has been changed ........... Run a feed to your fridge like I described leave the 12 pin for just the basic stuff and you won;t be having any trouble .................
 
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iarmstro

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Feb 27, 2024
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Grafton NSW
Hi Guys. Thanks for the comments. Just to be clear, the 280 Ah battery in the tug is a LiFePo4 battery, actually 4 individual cells connected with a 40A cell ballancer/overvoltage/undervoltage board. Driving that is a charge voltage sensitive 40A DC/DC converter with Solar and Battery direct inputs and a 40 Amp output.

The LiFePO4 cells have temperature specs of (Charging) -5 to 60°C, and (Discharge) -30 to 60°C, so ok there for Aussie outback.

J35 has a maximum charge current of 15A, and the fridge at 16A (or a little more) will make pins 9 and 10 sufficient to power both at worst case scenario, which I don't expect as there is little to drain the Van battery, and it also has a solar panel on roof.

One thing I didn't mention about my reversing/rear view camera. In my vehicle, I have a change over switch between Tug rear view and Van Camera RF receiver. I have another power switch connected directly to Pin 2 on plug, and a connection between reversing lights on tug to Pin 2 which has a 5 Amp diode inline.

What does this do? Well, reverse gear powers Pin 2, and therefore Reverse camera and video transmitter on van, though the diode. But when I'm driving, and want to see behind, I can turn on the power switch on dash, which will power the Reversing camera, but will not activate my vehicle reversing lights due to the diode. Of course I also need to turn on Camera View on Stereo.

Hope this helps. If you want to know which Electronics I'm using, I can list them.

Have a good one!
 

Drover

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My old rig I just had a 2 cam screen , used in place of rear view mirror, just flip the switch for Ute View or Van view, used 90deg cams instead of reversing 120deg so I could see behind and they were always on......... with the van cam some 30 ft behind I prefered hard wire set up.

The problem with running a fridge via the 12 pin is if/when the pins gets loose or plug is loose they will melt down since its pulling a constant load and easy to get hot plus the standard wiring is really too light, it happens enough to be not surprising, I went for many years until mine had a melt down while others its happened regularly until they changed. The battery charging isn't a biggy as most of the time it isn't pushing a lot of power anyway, if one has solar on the roof then charge from car not needed really..... well I haven't bothered for near 10 years actually, solar does the lot no 12v charging and now no 240 charging at all, never used it so didn't upgrade it at all when I went lithum.

The batteries intrigue me though, I haven't come across any that advise okay to charge at over 35c, in fact its not really advisable to charge AGMs above 45c, in such cases the lifespan is reduced considerably and we are talking years ...... Even if they say good to charge I would be keeping my charging to the coolest time .....
 

Boots in Action

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Hi Guys. Thanks for the comments. Just to be clear, the 280 Ah battery in the tug is a LiFePo4 battery, actually 4 individual cells connected with a 40A cell ballancer/overvoltage/undervoltage board. Driving that is a charge voltage sensitive 40A DC/DC converter with Solar and Battery direct inputs and a 40 Amp output.

The LiFePO4 cells have temperature specs of (Charging) -5 to 60°C, and (Discharge) -30 to 60°C, so ok there for Aussie outback.

J35 has a maximum charge current of 15A, and the fridge at 16A (or a little more) will make pins 9 and 10 sufficient to power both at worst case scenario, which I don't expect as there is little to drain the Van battery, and it also has a solar panel on roof.

One thing I didn't mention about my reversing/rear view camera. In my vehicle, I have a change over switch between Tug rear view and Van Camera RF receiver. I have another power switch connected directly to Pin 2 on plug, and a connection between reversing lights on tug to Pin 2 which has a 5 Amp diode inline.

What does this do? Well, reverse gear powers Pin 2, and therefore Reverse camera and video transmitter on van, though the diode. But when I'm driving, and want to see behind, I can turn on the power switch on dash, which will power the Reversing camera, but will not activate my vehicle reversing lights due to the diode. Of course I also need to turn on Camera View on Stereo.

Hope this helps. If you want to know which Electronics I'm using, I can list them.

Have a good one!
@iarmstro, as you provide more info, it clarifies the situation and confirms that you are knowledgeable on electrics and charging (Low voltage stuff at least!!) and have a good grip of things. Stay on top and enjoy. However, note @Drover's and my warning about transferring high continuous current between tug and van by any means other than by using Anderson plugs for electrical connections.