Cybertruck 2022

yabbietol

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2014
380
810
93
Queanbeyan NSW
#1
We a facing a paradigm shift in technology that will have impacts on caravan owners choice of tow vehicles.

Currently I own a Landcrusier 200 as my tow vehicle and it has done 80,000km in 3 years much of those Kms is towing and its extended warranty will finish at 150,000km. I plan to replace it at about that stage. I thought till now the replacement will be another Landcrusier 200 or 300, but Toyota do not seem to have a new model 300 series coming out and the 200 series very complex technology is getting quite old plus Diesel fuel in Australia is some of the lowest quality in the world.

I really like my LC 200, but in 2022 not sure if they will still be sold by Toyota and unless we get fuel standards we will be in a technology dead end as the rest of the world moves on. Toyota may not make a diesel 300 series and may stop making the 200 series in diesel.

Mining companies are a significant Toytoa market and several Australian mines have already converted Landcrusiers to electric vehicles and are looking at using less diesel. Toyota was a world leader in hybrid technology and are now introducing a plug in hybrid RAV4, but they are a very conservative company. A plug in hybrid Landcrusier may appear, but I doubt it. Most likely we are looking at the last generation of large diesel towing vehicles (except maybe very expensive American trucks).

So what happens next, Elon Mus's Tesla is making the technologically advance Cybertruck planned for release in Australia in ~2022 the mid range 4WD model at about $A80,000 has towing specs that exceed Landcrusier 200 and most American pick up trucks. Cybertruck looks very interesting. Ford will be soon releasing its electric F150, but likely to be well over $A100,000 and the amazing Rivian will likely be well over $A120,000.

Range of mid range Cybertruck is likely to be similar to my Pajero when towing, but performance better than a Landcrusier 200. It is looking like a very attractive option in 2022.

So interested to see opinions, please be nice and please remember change is inevitable, I have looked a couple of other forums and the climate change deniers have gone over the top and destroyed any chance of sensible discussion about what happens with towing 2-3.5 tonne caravans in the next decade.

PS Australia currently has less than 3 weeks of fuel reserves and we are now getting the lowest quality diesel sold on the world markets, so diesel (or petrol) as a fuel in the longterm is a worry.

Admin if this topic degenerates please close it.

Thanks
Terry
 

jazzeddie1234

Active Member
May 19, 2016
148
144
43
Mandurah
#2
I've been following the EV market for a bit and, in Tesla's case, the resale has been pretty strong but that may not last once the enthusiasts have soaked up their passion. The plug in hybrids look like a great compromise so long as they do the job and the technology is well tested in smaller cars anyway.
Tesla and a few others are trialing full size truck/trailers so I guess there will be a decent offering in the ute & large 4wd market - power is not in question but range when towing will be the big question.
My guess is that uptake in EV utes (and cars) will be strong in fleets because they look at long term costs of ownership and not just the purchase price.
My second guess is that uptake will be strong with those looking for a high performance ute rather than a workhorse - especially when a standard tesla model 3 can keep up with most supercars
Guess three is we will shortly (2 years max) see a mad rush of companies installing chargers everywhere and they will be common sights in malls, along major routes, and in restaurant carparks. Same has happened in the US because there is money to be made installing chargers.

Regardless of how I feel about climate, I think tesla has triggered a fantastic rush of car innovation that will make ICE cars look a bit old fashioned in a few years.
 

yabbietol

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2014
380
810
93
Queanbeyan NSW
#3
If sell my 6 year old LC200 I should get at least $50,000+, I then need to save $30K in next 3 years, so Cybertruck or new Landcruiser LXX is what would happen to me financially. My calculations get the mid range Cybertruck at $80,000 with ~10% contingency and with current exchange rates and if exchange rates vary they will impact on LXX price.

My LC200 is very complex technology (overly complex) and I am continually worried about dirty fuel while travelling so hence the expense of extended Toyota warranty, water watch and being very careful from who and where I buy fuel.

Electric vehicles because of the constant power they provide should be great tow vehicles they are also easy to charge on any 3 phase outlet, most Australian show grounds have lots of 3 phase power outlets plus there will be many more charging stations appearing in the next 3 years .

Range may be an issue we will have at least a year of US market towing with Cybertruck before they are sold in Australia so we will see how good they tow. However, I coped very well with the very limited tow range of my Pajero for the first year of owning my 2.5 tonne van, I do not think it will be a big problem in most of Australia.

Electric Vehicles (EV) are not a theory the are real and here now and people who buy them are not fools, so @Drover could we please stop the inflammatory language, that type of talk will get this thread to degenerate and closed.

The through life cost of EV ownership from new is now lower than cost than new Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicle even in Australia. Currently 2nd hand EVs depreciate less than ICE vehicles and are more reliable and need much less maintenance.
 

jazzeddie1234

Active Member
May 19, 2016
148
144
43
Mandurah
#5
Just remember that inflammatory language to an enthusiast may be any criticism! I think Drover makes a valid point about risking big dollars on untested towing range and budget minded purchasers who need to keep upgrade costs to a minimum. A club I recently joined when I retired last year...
 

yabbietol

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2014
380
810
93
Queanbeyan NSW
#6
Well if thats inflamatory then Im sorry, I have deleted the non compliant post.
@Drover you have done the polite thing and I thank you.

This forum is a great place to get good info without the angst of many other forums.

That is why I though it was a good place to put up a topic about which you can get good info and interesting opinions.

Regards
Terry
 

millers

Active Member
Mar 25, 2011
233
174
43
Adelaide
#7
Have this conversation at work often, and my questions are going to be:

How long is it going to take to charge (compared with 5 minutes at present)
when will there be charging stations on the Gibb River Rd
What is the equivalent of putting 2-3 20 litre jerry cans on the caravan/trailer
When I run out of charge in some remote place, how do you re-charge.
 
Likes: yabbietol

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
993
857
93
Ferny Grove, Queensland
#8
Have this conversation at work often, and my questions are going to be:

How long is it going to take to charge (compared with 5 minutes at present)
when will there be charging stations on the Gibb River Rd
What is the equivalent of putting 2-3 20 litre jerry cans on the caravan/trailer
When I run out of charge in some remote place, how do you re-charge.
Like you @millers , range with heavy pulling will be the main issue and the time taken to re-charge. To gain greater range, will that involve more battery storage with the incumbent problems of weight and where to fit them? Technology in improving the capacity to deliver more power between re-charging is the only way forward in this large and sparsely populated country. Or we are going to have to change our ways in touring with van - heavy or not!
 
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jazzeddie1234

Active Member
May 19, 2016
148
144
43
Mandurah
#9
Restaurants and shopping centres in the US have latched onto the charging time issue by placing chargers in their carparks and offering free top ups if you buy a meal. Country pubs have let me stay out the back overnight on the same understanding. Maybe the roads dept could install a few chargers in overnight stops...

I suspect the remote refueling issue can only be addressed by a hybrid (at this stage). 4WDs are so complex now-days, a little more under the hood may not be noticed by anyone other than hard core offroaders. Although I do like the feeling of being able to fix many common problems wherever I may be parked.
 
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Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
8,823
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QLD
www.expandasdownunder.com
#10
While the vehicle concept I have no doubt will eventually come about I do think the major issues in regard to having one as a tug is not going to be in the vehicle but in the charging facilities, the infrastructure west of the Great Divide wouldn't cope with the load, many towns just manage the load at present so a huge upgrade would be required, something that I think is beyond governments, massive investment in power stations and the time required to refuel certainly would be an issue for a rig thats up to 50ft long, let alone the space it takes up while it happens, so i doubt stations in supermarkets or car parks would be viable, while the dream of stopping at a caravan park for the night plugging in your van and tug would require massive investment by parks with fast chargers at the moment being in the thousand of dollars each, I can just imagine the daily rate for such a park especially as, again many like showgrounds can't handle the loads of numerous AC's running.


So I think while the concept of the vehicle is well covered I doubt the infrastructure and facilities will be there for many years and from the numerous articles I have looked at, the issue of facilities is really ignored or just brushed over.......everything is from a city outlook and the models just skim over the workings of out of town, imagine the charging facilities required at places like Boulia and Birdsville, not only need acres of Dunnies trucked in but but acres of portable solar panels and trucks with huge regulators and charging units on to recharge everyone, of course at a profit....... so I envision the ICE might just be around for a few more decades and really the engines aren't that technical just the crap hanging off them, in fact I find maintaining them easier now, its the quality of the servicing thats the problem, thats why LC drivers worry about fuel quality since thats what the service depts blame things on, not the fact that they don't have a service regime for their fuel filters, when the light comes on its actually too late.

All in all I'm looking forward to the Fords and Chevy's coming out, be interesting to see how they go and watch the guinea pigs part with their cash, for thats what the first buyers of the first generation of vehicles will be, no matter be they Ford, Chev or Tesla........ I hope that folks don't get burnt as the sharks will be out.
I reckon it will be a great time of innovation but if the powers that be don't increase the generation capabilities of QLD and I mean beyond SEQ it won't go anywhere, stations probably won't be an issue in major towns eventually but the smaller places I doubt commercial enterprise would see any profit in them and the recovery and repair west of the Divide, another issue entirely...... lots more thought beyond the vehicle concept needed....

Main roads providing way side power points, lol,lol,lol........
 
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yabbietol

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2014
380
810
93
Queanbeyan NSW
#11
Have this conversation at work often, and my questions are going to be:

How long is it going to take to charge (compared with 5 minutes at present)
when will there be charging stations on the Gibb River Rd
What is the equivalent of putting 2-3 20 litre jerry cans on the caravan/trailer
When I run out of charge in some remote place, how do you re-charge.
These are just the type of questions and answers that I hoped would come from starting this forum.

My take is:

The Gibb River road is under 700km with several fuel stops along it. The plenty Highway has Tobermoray, Harts Range, Gemtree and Jervois which are fuel stops plus the Great Central Road has some good fuel stops, it is not too far between fuel stops and most of them currently have 3 phase power and almost certainly will get EV charging, even it is for their own vehicles as transporting diesel is expensive to these remote places. Certainly the Canning Stock Route is a problem, but I am not planning on towing along it.

We already stop for fuel when towing along these types of roads and we do not mostly travel on these remote roads towing full size vans (I have done 2 of the above 3 with my van in the last 3 years). The remote fuel stops and stations mostly have electricity often solar and some with wind so it is very logical they will be happy to sell electricity, major roads and highways are rapidly getting fast chargers, destination chargers and most show grounds and van parks would be happy to sell electricity to charge your vehicle.

The jerry can point is interesting, both Rivian and Tesla have announced they will have smaller extra batteries you can supplement the fitted battery with "electric" jerry cans. What these cost and how they will work we will have to wait to see.

Running out of charge is like running out of diesel again both Rivian and Tesla have announced you will eventually be able to charge one of their trucks form another truck, kinda "electronic" syphoning fuel. Again we will have to wait and see how well this works.

Also something diesel cannot do than an EV can you can charge from any 10Amp, 15Amp or 3 phase outlet so you have a fuel stop where ever you have electricity. Slow refuelling, but ubiquitous fuel. Also charge times are 30-60 min at the moment with fast chargers, but this is improving and I am sure most EVs will charge overnight at roadhouses, showgrounds and van parks. Also you charge at home and if you have solar mostly for free leaving home each time with a full fuel tank (charge) would be nice.

"Times are a changing" much will happen in the next 5 years with battery technology and charging it will impact on us caravan towing.
 

millers

Active Member
Mar 25, 2011
233
174
43
Adelaide
#12
Understand all of the hype and the solutions around the city and commute but I think the hybrid will be the way to go. The good thing with electric is that it may resolve articulation with motors at the wheels. With that in mind, there could also be the option for the caravan to also be driven.

But all of that aside I am thinking that 10-20 years is more like it for Australia and the outback. And on that note may be even Hydrogen but I do not know if that is a good remote fuel.

Maybe when the trucks are able to do it there may be a solution more likely.

I can also see that remote areas would be overloaded, even with solar and wind. 80% is the efficiency of charging so that means that the stations will need 125% more power.
 

yabbietol

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2014
380
810
93
Queanbeyan NSW
#13
Understand all of the hype and the solutions around the city and commute but I think the hybrid will be the way to go. The good thing with electric is that it may resolve articulation with motors at the wheels. With that in mind, there could also be the option for the caravan to also be driven.

But all of that aside I am thinking that 10-20 years is more like it for Australia and the outback. And on that note may be even Hydrogen but I do not know if that is a good remote fuel.

Maybe when the trucks are able to do it there may be a solution more likely.

I can also see that remote areas would be overloaded, even with solar and wind. 80% is the efficiency of charging so that means that the stations will need 125% more power.
Could you please explain the % in the last paragraph, i cannot follow the logic.
Thanks
Terry
 

CarlDry

New Member
Jan 5, 2019
16
12
3
Bundaberg
#14
My prediction....ten years time I'm going to be driving the same LC200 using diesel.....

100 years ago horses were more common than cars....
50 years ago we landed on the moon.....
What have we really done in the last 50 years???
Not much apart from destroy social cohesion and make the modern generation self-centred with facebook and instagram and chat forums where everyone thinks what they say is important....

and why am I posting here??? I suppose I'm full of my own self importance?
 

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
8,823
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QLD
www.expandasdownunder.com
#15
Im still waiting for the flying car....:couch2:........self importance at least means your not a miserable bugga........and I too will still be driving oil burner in 10 yrs time, $100K on battery job, not a hope but could be some cheap Cruisers or RAMs around.
 
Jul 20, 2018
63
78
18
Gawler SA
#17
What have we really done in the last 50 years???
That’s a bit harsh; the last 50 years have seen some of the greatest advances in technology ever.
Some of these we use every day of our lives and while others may not affect us as individuals they definitely have made a difference to society.
GPS, Google Maps, Robotics, DNA Fingerprinting , MRI's, iPhones (50 years ago the only phones were attached to the wall in our hallways) and the list goes on. And yes I did use google help me find some examples.
 

CarlDry

New Member
Jan 5, 2019
16
12
3
Bundaberg
#18
I suppose what I mean is advances in technology aren't necessarily advances to society? Leaving aside medical advances, how many of the new technologies do we actually need? Is basing economies on change for economic growth the right way to go? A throw away society is causing the problems. Throw it away and get a new model....Product life-cycle is probably the main cause of environmental damage in the world, and that is caused by those new technologies that we see on our new technologies. iPhone being a great example of what's wrong with society,..when people line up to get a new model phone to show off to whoever.......well...they should have real things to worry about....like feeding the family.

I can use a compass and a map and ring from a payphone...LOL..I lied...haven't seen a payphone in years....
 

Crusty181

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
5,438
11,534
113
Mentone, VIC
#19
We have major issuess in good olde Oz with our inadequate power supply infrastructure. We experience regular blackouts, the aging and expensive network is crumbling and power prices continue to rise unchecked almost month to month. Regular, consistant and reliable electricity is more rare than oil. So youll excuse me if I find it amusing, this vision of electric cars being the saviour of mankind. There are so many grubby backstories of detrimental environmental effects of sustainable energy production along with waste management you dont really need to bother with climate arguement any more.

I think its sounds great on paper, so much so it really does read like its awesome and "could" possibly be the way of the future, but like most stories ... theres two sides. Like most things it will be plagued by the vise like grip of vested interests, mismanagement, incompetence, competing economic factors, smoke and mirrors and secret behind closed door deals. In short it will be another monumental balls up, failure and lost opportunity

Im 56 years old and i suspect i would not have to worry too about it in my lifetime ... but hey, that wont stop me enjoying the show. I think ill keep my diesel in the shed for another few (read 30) years
 

Crusty181

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
5,438
11,534
113
Mentone, VIC
#20
That’s a bit harsh; the last 50 years have seen some of the greatest advances in technology ever.
Some of these we use every day of our lives and while others may not affect us as individuals they definitely have made a difference to society.
GPS, Google Maps, Robotics, DNA Fingerprinting , MRI's, iPhones (50 years ago the only phones were attached to the wall in our hallways) and the list goes on. And yes I did use google help me find some examples.
Yeah ... Netflix, Xbox, Google Home (how cools that on), light that turn off by talking to them, one remote that controls everthing ;)