Electrical Changing Setec ST25-III for lithium

[Boots in Action]

so just catching up with this, thanks for the comments.dl

I've got a 200ah lithiuim coming, wth 250a continuous supply, will be good for my 2000w inverter to run the missus coffee machine!

So thnking of just disconnecting batteries from the Setec and leaving that for the house 240v supply.
Adding a AC/DC charger for the lithium for when it's laid up undercover.
Adding a new DC/DC charger with solar (probably Enerdrive 40a unit https://enerdrive.com.au/product/12v-40a-dc2dc-battery-charger/ ) which allows for up to 800w of solar!
Daisy chaining another 2 panels to give me approx 450w on the roof.
Probably will add a smart shunt and battery monitor so i can get a quick read out of power supply. I have a Renogy unit still in box so might use that.

With a good MPPT controller, you can do better by connecting all panels in SERIES provided they are the same (or close to ) wattage and a similar (or close to ) charging voltage. I have 2 X 200w and 1 X 180w folding panels (portable) connected in SERIES to my single 135ah AGM - massive over-kill I know - but never short of power and always a very fast recovery. Although my MPPT controller says it can handle up to max of 100 volts PV voltage, currently only ever reached 58 volts! Also, although max panel input wattage is listed as 400 watts, not likely to achieve that normally, and in any case, unit will limit levels to within safe levels too.

No real need to provide a shunt for normal loads as your MPPT controller will provide you with this data if you wire your loads through the LOAD terminals on MPPT controller. I have that method for mine and at least three others on this forum now have that setup... That is the only way you will ever know what current draw is at any time on your MPPT display. I did a wiring post on this sometime back and even @Drover has his that way now, although, as he has different size/output solar panels, he has to keep his panels in PARALLEL. It you need more info, let me know - @Grandpa Gunna and @Johnanbev have also successfully wired their electrical loads that way. Note that these are for light loads only, (up to equal to input charge limit) not for compressors, or inverters etc as these must be connected directly to battery/ies. My MPPT controller is shown below, no need for Bluetooth as like @Drover's all info on the display. Something to think about?? Good luck!!

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[Drover]

so just catching up with this, thanks for the comments.

I've got a 200ah lithiuim coming, wth 250a continuous supply, will be good for my 2000w inverter to run the missus coffee machine!

So thnking of just disconnecting batteries from the Setec and leaving that for the house 240v supply.
Adding a AC/DC charger for the lithium for when it's laid up undercover.
Adding a new DC/DC charger with solar (probably Enerdrive 40a unit https://enerdrive.com.au/product/12v-40a-dc2dc-battery-charger/ ) which allows for up to 800w of solar!
Daisy chaining another 2 panels to give me approx 450w on the roof.
Probably will add a smart shunt and battery monitor so i can get a quick read out of power supply. I have a Renogy unit still in box so might use that.

If you disconnect your batteries from the Setec you won't have any 12v supply for lights and stuff, as I mentioned in my original post, the Setek supplies power and fusing for your 12v system from the battery, it doesn't need to be plugged into 240v to do this, plugging into 240v is just for charging the battery, though if you have no battery connected it will convert and provide 12v but in your future set up you won't want this as it will try to charge your batteries ...Make any sense ???
So just unplug the Setek from the 240 and leave it connected to your batteries, hook your solar reg direct to batteries and all will be sweet, the Setek will just be your 12v distribution system and fuse board, a saving of many hundreds of $$$ ..........................

As @Boots in Action mentioned, if a controller will handle 400w of solar you can have 600w in the roof and it will work just as well because while you may have 600w on the roof the controller will be lucky to ever see half of that, I look at panel ratings be it W or Amps as "Wistfull Thinking", like most of these things take 30% off the specs and you might be close to what is real....... If you see 40amps coming down the line I would expect to see some smoke somewhere..........

Read up big time on lithium batteries, they don't need a constant trickle while in the shed, actually prefer to rest at the 60% ?? mark, I would lean to a small panel (40W) on shed roof which plugs into your van be lots cheaper and running thru your MPPT unit do a great job....... Read the specs that apply to your lithium as they are not all the same due to various BMS circuits in them.

Panels in Series gives you lots of juice but if the roof is set up in series you cant just plug in a portable it will upset the cart...... hence why mine is parrallel.... I can run my portable out of shady areas.. My 150w portable over the day will churn out more juice than than the 440w on the roof even on a real good day as it has the sun on its face all the time unlike the roof jobs......

The Enerdrive will certainly cover charging from solar as well as tug but its a unit that is really overkill on your system, your solar will probably have your batteries back up to charge before you hook up the tug, I would save a few hundred $$ by going a dedicated MPPT solar controller...
Nowadays the move to lithium, MPPT controllers and decent panel set up does mean charging from Tug and Mains is not really neccessary, I have GEL batteries and don't use either of them...... Far better to spend the money on travelling or something that will actually get used..........

 

[Brougham]

okay, so have decided to have some fun. Have ordered:

Renogy DCC50 50A DC-DC charger (handles approx 700w of solar).
Renogy 3000w inverter charger.

This setup will automatically sense and changeover from power to battery, and thus power the whole caravan.
Probably be a push on the 200a battery, so will likely order a second 200a lithium to run together.
Leaving setec for "powerboard" useage.

Should be interesting...

 

[Drover]

So what will 3000w continuos with 6000w peak invertor be running, some serious juice there ?? ???? 3 points is handy...............

 

[Boots in Action]

okay, so have decided to have some fun. Have ordered:

Renogy DCC50 50A DC-DC charger (handles approx 700w of solar).
Renogy 3000w inverter charger.

This setup will automatically sense and changeover from power to battery, and thus power the whole caravan.
Probably be a push on the 200a battery, so will likely order a second 200a lithium to run together.
Leaving setec for "powerboard" useage.

Should be interesting...

Spending heaps of money (if you have it!) is always fun. But the real fun only occurs when you get the full value out of your outlay.

 

[DWWood]

Hey guys, great thread. I run 2 x 105ah Full River AGM's in the van (2014 17.56.1 Outback). It just has the stock solar panel on roof but have upgraded the controller to a Victron MPPT 100/30 controller. I have also wired up a separate Anderson plug to charge from portable panels if parking under shade/trees etc.

So just to clarify I'm best to disconnect the Setec's 240v from charging the batteries and just rely on solar? Is this easy to do or should be done by a sparky?

 

[Drover]

To stop the setek charging the batteries when on 240 just a matter of turning the Setek off at the power point....then the setek is just the fuse box for your 12v.

 

[jazzeddie1234]

I would suggest leaving the setec on if the battery requirements are nothing special. It has the benefit that when on mains supply a) the setec is running the 12v systems instead of batteries, b) maintaining a moderate state of charge during cloudy days, c)
supplementing the solar

The standard jayco setup is the setec and solar charging (the solar is direct connected to batteries - not via setec) together without issue and the setec undercharges rather than overcharges if that is a worry.

 

[DWWood]

Cheers

 

[Drover]

If your parking up storage wise in a shed I would plug it into 240 and let the Setek just do its thing and your battery will be kept good or you fit a panel on the roof and plug it into the battery to do the job , if parked up outside then the panels will look after the battery and no need to disconnect the battery from the van............. Mine lives outside, panels look after the battery and I even leave my Sat set up fired up for a few days every few weeks to keep it logged in, gives the solar some exercise as well............... The lower possible charge rate of the Setek really is neither here nor there as once you hit the road the solar or tug charge will bring it up to speed in short order.
Depending on the fridge even if plugged into 240 or tug it can rely on power from van battery to operate, just something to tuck away in memory...... just recently, someone switched off water pump but missed, turned off 12v so at next stop fridge wasn't on, power from tug of course but nothing to drive the fridges circuit board.......... Duh.

 

[mfexpanda]

To stop the setek charging the batteries when on 240 just a matter of turning the Setek off at the power point....then the setek is just the fuse box for your 12v.

I’ve taken the plunge bought 3 lithium batteries 2 for the van and 1 for the ute.
Also a new dc to dc charger for the ute as the older one doesn’t do lithium
A lithium ac charger for when the van is in the shed
Will also wire the ute and van so the dc to dc also charges van batteries while driving

 

[Boots in Action]

I’ve taken the plunge bought 3 lithium batteries 2 for the van and 1 for the ute.
Also a new dc to dc charger for the ute as the older one doesn’t do lithium
A lithium ac charger for when the van is in the shed
Will also wire the ute and van so the dc to dc also charges van batteries while driving

Don't forget to change the settings on your solar controller also. All methods then covered.

 

[mfexpanda]

I’ve taken the plunge bought 3 lithium batteries 2 for the van and 1 for the ute.
Also a new dc to dc charger for the ute as the older one doesn’t do lithium
A lithium ac charger for when the van is in the shed
Will also wire the ute and van so the dc to dc also charges van batteries while drivi gear is starting to arrive

I’ve taken the plunge bought 3 lithium batteries 2 for the van and 1 for the ute.
Also a new dc to dc charger for the ute as the older one doesn’t do lithium
A lithium ac charger for when the van is in the shed
Will also wire the ute and van so the dc to dc also charges van batteries while driving

The gear is starting to arrive
I can’t believe how heavy the AGM batteries are compared to the lithium .

 

[Boots in Action]

The gear is starting to arrive
I can’t believe how heavy the AGM batteries are compared to the lithium .

Supposedly up to one third of the weight of a good AGM. If a good AGM weighs approx 30kgs, a lithium at approx 10kgs with the same storage capacity (plus other advantages?) means a difference of at least 20kgs per battery. That is significant. It also makes your wallet that much lighter too!!

 

[mfexpanda]

Supposedly up to one third of the weight of a good AGM. If a good AGM weighs approx 30kgs, a lithium at approx 10kgs with the same storage capacity (plus other advantages?) means a difference of at least 20kgs per battery. That is significant. It also makes your wallet that much lighter too

You read about how much lighter they are but when you have them side by side lift one then the other it’s unreal .
Oh and buying 3 lithium’s a new dc to dc charger ,as I’m doing the car too, 2000 W inverter ,new mppt 60a/h controller
And lithium charger my wallet is much lighter .
I’m setting it up so the van batteries charge through the dc to dc when driving

 

[Hitting the road]

I'd like to go Lithium too for the weight and physical size advantage too...the 2 x 140 amp AGM's in my van together weigh 66kgs. Though they only went in as I already had them and the original 100amp standard fitment was getting tired. If I ever wanted to put 3 of these in the weight penalty spirals to near enough 100kgs!

I will definitely replace with Lithium when the time comes. The MPPT I have is lithium compatible but the BMS is not, so would need to update that to allow mains charging when parked up. Though...I have read that Lithium batteries are quite happy to be left alone and just topped up from time to time? I think Drover mentioned that above somewhere...

 

[Drover]

I looked at and came close to replacing my GELs with Lithium but when I balanced it all out, still too expensive for saving a few Kgs and thats using them for near 4 mths of the year, my solar reg can handle them never use the 240v charger so wouldn't bother replacing it and besides depending on the lithium battery some will happily take an AGM charge, it all depends on the BMS unit thats in the lithium, not all lithiums operate the same either..... while the storage is the same the circuit board that makes them work varies in its capabilities and is actually the important bit of the whole system... There's a lot of fine print to troll through when making a decision....

If you have an off grid set up on roof no need for 240 or tug charging really..... its a left over from the pre solar days... Drive for 4 hrs camp for 4 weeks....

 

[mfexpanda]

I looked at and came close to replacing my GELs with Lithium but when I balanced it all out, still too expensive for saving a few Kgs and thats using them for near 4 mths of the year, my solar reg can handle them never use the 240v charger so wouldn't bother replacing it and besides depending on the lithium battery some will happily take an AGM charge, it all depends on the BMS unit thats in the lithium, not all lithiums operate the same either..... while the storage is the same the circuit board that makes them work varies in its capabilities and is actually the important bit of the whole system... There's a lot of fine print to troll through when making a decision....

If you have an off grid set up on roof no need for 240 or tug charging really..... its a left over from the pre solar days... Drive for 4 hrs camp for 4 weeks....

The reason I went and installed a AC charger is that the van lives in a shed at home so it goes months without the sun on the panels
Also the dc to dc incase we get those dark rainy days when traveling when free camping just like the last trip

 

[Drover]

those dark rainy days when traveling when free camping just like the last trip

Thats why I have the little red power station ..................... when I saw that lithiums didn't like being stored at full noise I thought I would just throw a small panel on the roof ( if and when I got around to putting a roof up over Big Mal.) and that would just keep everything juiced up slightly, otherwise I was going to turn the solar off and just boot it up when they got low again....

 

[Hitting the road]

That's the thing Drover, it is the charging profile that might leave a Lithium battery potentially under charged when running off a non compatible 240v in built charger. In my case for a tad over a $1000 I could buy a J35D BMPRO Lithium compatible BMS and replace the non Lithium compatible J35B BMPRO if I really wanted to go to Lithium, therefore being able to keep them topped up while parked at a caravan park.. I am sure it would bolt right up with not much extra work than to unplug and plug in a few connectors.

Like you I balk at the cost of buying good quality Lithium batteries...I keep asking myself...do I really "need" Lithium? It's a lot of money for something I don't necessarily "need" As I wrote above I will go Lithium when it is time to do so...

For a bit over $300 I could also throw another 140 amp AGM in to the mix and then have 420 amps availabler residing under the seat. That, with the additional solar I can now hook up, and once I fit an inverter, I could probably evn run the air conditioner off grid for a few hours...

Me thinks I will be sticking with good ole AGM for a fair bit longer though...