ball weight

[andrewandjodie]

just bought a new ob expanda 17.5 tandem. I have a ballweight issue with my 300tdi jayco says 175 bw on caravan. I have 2 9kg gas bottles on front and a spare tyre would it make much difference if i put the tyre on the back and loose the gas bottles for now? landrover max ball weight is a rediculous 150 but can tow 3500

 

[mfexpanda]

Its normaly 10% of the tow weight but some do reduce it for some reason

 

[andrewandjodie]

something horribly wrong with this then,96td discovery. 10% of 3500 means i should have a ballweight allowance quite high but ive got about the same as a holden commodore.frustrating part is i cant get it changed so 4 now 2 b legall i will have to load it wrong to b legal.only going 2 beachside caravanparks in adelaide until i can sort it out. Thanks

 

[cruza driver]

Is 150kg stamped on the towbar?

What brand towbar is it as I know some genuine towbars have a lower ball weight than a Hayman Reece bar.

 

[andrewandjodie]

when landrover released the tdi model for some reason which no one appears to have the answer for,they gave a maximum towball weight of 150 .i have rang hayman reece who said you cannot go above the manufacters stated maximum. then rang a automotive engineer who said the same. the td5 approx 1999 onwards got changed.apparently in the uk they dont use towball weights and they can legally tow to 4ton.youd think that some common sense would prevail and could be changed but theres a brick wall in the way.obvious problem is if im in an accident with my expanda insurance company would have a picnic........hows that for rediculous!!!

 

[mfexpanda]

I was told if it isn't stamped on the towbar they would believe it to be 10% of the towing limit .

my colorado has 300kg stamped and 3000kg limit

 

[andrewandjodie]

what your saying sounds right,which also shows my positon 2 b rediculous.I took off both gas bottles and the spare wheel from the draw bar today and put some water in the rear tank, Found this weight calculation off the net and if its right im under 150ballweight. would appreciate anyone assuring its correct.thanks for replies

 

[straydingo]

Hi Andrew and Jodie,
Please disregard my question in the new member section, as you stated it here

Yes I believe that setup is correct. However, the pipe on the scale is over the edge, which may give a false reading as the frame of the scales may take some of the weight. A reading of 45kg seems a bit low. Cut the pipe down a bit so it is clear of the edge by a cm or two, and retest. The smaller the point load, the better.

You should also load the van as you would if you were towing and get a reading from that. Thus if you'd normally leave the tanks on, then put them back on, cos they do add up a bit. Likewise any luggage etc. Or try with and without to understand the differences. (and please post back so we can all see the difference)

The towball weight is based on the maximum load of the van. Like you I'm about 20kg over the towball weight due to Nissan's calculations with me having a winch on the front of the car. My argument at the moment is that if I don't load the van to it's max allowance, realistically the ball weight also doesn't reach the figure as specified by Jayco. (legal disclaimer for forum - this is my personal view and might not be the the opinion of that of the forum and it's owners) Until such time as I update the car, I'll keep going like this.

In my case though, I can remove weight from the car (ie winch) and I'm back legal again. In your case with either a Disco 1, or a pre 2002 Rangie, there is no such allowance. The max is 150kg and thats it. It's a European thing to go with 5-8% of the tow weight rather than the 'estimated' 10% as here. The funny thing is, as with many makes of vehicles, the rated weights in Australia is different to those overseas with no change to the vehicle. So I wonder who or what governs these limits......
Even the new RR Vogues/Luxury/Autobio are rated at 7% of the tow rate, Freelanders at 12.5%, and Disco 4s at 10%. Its all over the place.

But none of that helps you....
Recheck the ball weight as if actually towing, and see if it is under 150kg.
If so, don't worry too much about it.
Yes, moving weight to the rear of the van may help, but may also make the tow hitch too light which 'may' also be problematic in winds (so they say, but I'm yet to be convinced). Make sure that if any increased weight on is the back (eg spare weheel) the van chassis is strong enough to take it (may need strengthening - search the forum)
If over 150kg, you need to decide for yourself if that is a problem to you as driver, and understand the consequences if something happens (insurance can the least of our worries).
If it is over 150kg, and a problem, your options are basically replace the vehicle or replace the van. On an outside option, you may be able to find a Transport SA engineer who can sign off on the vehicle with an increased towball weight. If you can find one, I'm guessing anywhere between 2000 and 15000 dollars, depending on the test they want to do.

If considering a 3.0L Jeep as stated elsewhere:
2005-2010 Grand Cherokee 3.0: 3500kg/327kg
2011 Grand Cherokee: 3500kg/227-350kg (3 occupants plus luggage = 350kg, 4 occupants = 297kg, 5 occupants = 227kg)
(From Vehicle Mass Towing Guide may 2011)

 

[Capt. Gadget]

Hi AndrewandJodie Im assuming when you say calculations there is some formula where the distances from the point in the centre (Towball) in relation to where the brick and the scales are
to get a true weight because I just tried this experiment with my self and it reduced my body weight by about 40%. Sad thing is it's been a while since I jumped on the Scales and went 94kgs that can't be right ooops time to lay of the vanilla slices for a while

 

[andrewandjodie]

hi all ,i found the scale thing by googling "ball weight calculation" then looking around it. It says to do what i did then *Try posting a bit more so your post isn't boring* . First did it with 2xfull gas bottles and big spare on front of draw bar,most of the stuff we go away with is still in the van. the few bits that go in i put in the centre of the van above the dual axles so it shouldnt change much. The first reading i got was 64kg which *Try posting a bit more so your post isn't boring* =192kg which sounds right because jayco say its 175kg empty. By taking off the 2xbottles and wheel it read 52kg *Try posting a bit more so your post isn't boring*=156kg,i thought sh*t thats getting close, so i thought id see how much water in rear tank it would take to get it down and it didnt take thatmuch as you can see it reads about 43kg *Try posting a bit more so your post isn't boring* = 129kgs which without a big change gets me legal. Im only going local until i get a new tug but it gives peace of mind, also it gives me some packing room with 129kgs on the ball. This is the way i see it, i run into car in front of me and its not my fault, someone in that car dies. Insurance company looks for an out. Finds that my rig wasnt compliant with the law book. My insurance would be void, loose car van and responsible for the issues in the car that got hit.dont Dont mean to put a dark picture on this but i think we all need to be aware of the way the law works. Happy times and good caravaning to all

 

[straydingo]

Hi Andrew and Jodie,
Yes I believe that setup is correct. However, the pipe on the scale is over the edge, which may give a false reading as the frame of the scales may take some of the weight. A reading of 45kg seems a bit low. .

ha ha - forgot the *Try posting a bit more so your post isn't boring* :lol:

 

[glee]

A couple of thoughts for next time...in your set up for measuring towball weight A&J, you need to ensure that the where metal bar rests on the block of wood at the right in the picture, that the bar only contacts the block under the line you have drawn on the bar. In the pic it looks like the bar is resting across the whole block, so the *Try posting a bit more so your post isn't boring* calculation could be out. You could put a metal rod on top of the block of wood directly under the line on the metal bar. 2nd if your scales can take it, and it looks like they can, you can just put the van's weight half way between your two marks, and double the reading. Finally, does Landrover allow more tb weight with a Landrover recommended weight distribution hitch?