17' Series Annex Safety Problems

[Marv_mart]

That is of course just my reading of the new regulations as outlines by @Bellbirdweb above.
I am no expert so really we need somebody to give us a definitive answer to these questions, preferably somebody who is a gas fitter and done/attended the update course for the new AS/NZS 5601.2 :2013
Is anybody on our forum qualified to confirm or clarify?

 

[gwadir]

@Marv_mart

Just posted this on another thread,

Just went through and ran the calculation from AS/NZS 5601.2 2013 for our van, for the fridge @ 1.24MJ/hr and the stove/grill @20.8MJ/hr the total vent area V = 18644.4mm², therefore two vents 200mm x 100mm placed on either side or either end of the annex is sufficient ventilation to meet compliance under the standard so where the annex industry reps or governing body or whatever are getting the 30% figure I don't know but based on this it is way wrong.
Dave

The calc is easy to apply so you can soon work out the size vents you would require in your annex, i think the industry needs to take a step back, take a deep breath and get an understanding of what is required before going off in a knee jerk reaction to a change in the standard.

 

[Petecaz]

I worked out similar for my van. I have sent our situation to the SA gas regulator to ask their specifications on it as When i rang them earlier they said it is different with a fly screen on top. They said they will get it to me in writing exactly what I need to do to my annex to comply.

 

[gwadir]

I worked out similar for my van. I have sent our situation to the SA gas regulator to ask their specifications on it as When i rang them earlier they said it is different with a fly screen on top. They said they will get it to me in writing exactly what I need to do to my annex to comply.

@Petecaz looking forward to hear what they advise you.

 

[macca]

I think the issue is to do with the installation of the flue terminal (fridge)that is on the outside wall of the caravan. I don't have a copy of the new standards but if someone does they should look up allowed location of an external flue terminal. I bet it says something along the lines of "must have free ventilation from two opposing sides". That would explain why people are saying they are not allowed to have end walls. Maybe they are deeming a 1 mJ appliance the same as a 26mJ one. Of course all the ventilation stuff as posted by others applies. I would be interested to know if someone has a 185L gas fridge with roof flue if they are having issues getting an annexe.

 

[Petecaz]

Just spoke to the gas people. It seems the formula is only for fridges with a flue at the top where they are part ventilated to the outside. As poptops do not have a flue up the top and only on the side, apparently the formula is different. Once they email me the info ill put it on the forum.

 

[gwadir]

Hi @macca

If your talking about a means of compliance flueing is one means of compliance and ventilation is another means of compliance, sub section 8.4.2 - Where the flue terminal of a balanced flue appliance, room-sealed appliance, a fan-assisted appliance or the flue terminal of an appliance designed for outdoor installation is to be installed under a covered area, where combustion products might not readily disperse or a nuisance could occur, either—

(a) the covered area shall be open on at least two sides and the terminal shall be located to ensure a free flow of air across it is achieved; or
(b) in the case of a fan-assisted
flue appliance only, when one side is open, the terminal shall be within 500 mm of the opening, discharging in the direction of the opening and there shall be no openings into the caravan or boat along the wall within that distance and the terminal shall be located to ensure that a free flow of air across it is achieved.


The fridge and the stove/grill are both appliances design for indoor use not outdoor, outdoor appliances would be things like the Baby-Q, that's when both sides would have to be open, ventilation as a means of compliance will stop any build up of combustion products so they don't cause a nuisance, on my reading of the standard.

 

[macca]

Agree but the flue terminal is outside. Closest appliance would be room sealed appliance for the fridge.
The other thing which comes into play might be the fact you are normally in control of the cooker and if used properly its only just used for cooking which is not for a really long time however the fridge when on gas is on all the time, burning 1 mJ of gas an hour.

 

[CJ1177]

I agree the regulation is aimed at the venting of the flue & the fact it's venting into a enclosed habitable space.
Would it be to simple thinking to extend the flue terminal to outside annex walls, is that possible.

 

[macca]

I agree the regulation is aimed at the venting of the flue & the fact it's venting into a enclosed habitable space.
Would it be to simple thinking to extend the flue terminal to outside annex walls, is that possible.

On some vans probably yes, the flue may be able to be extended vertically thru the roof , poptops would be an issue however.

 

[millers]

Hi all, a quick note (especially those that want to do free camping and use solar instead of gas or those that only do caravan parks). Ask Jayco to install a 12V 240V compressor fridge instead of the gas fridge on the Annex side. These I believe are a lot more efficient on 12V so will be good for solar.

Just a thought

 

[macca]

Just found this link and it refers to the new standards about flue terminals in annexes.
http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/Gas-Professionals/AS-NZS5601

 

[Bmhdg76]

So just to clarify, we only have our stove on the side for an annex - the fridge is on the drivers side. So if we wanted an annex we would be ok?

BJ

 

[gwadir]

Don't ask me anymore I don't know, I spoke to one of our Combustion Engineers here at the steelworks and we sat down together and did some calc's based on the fridge gas consumption of 1.24MJ/hr and the CO & CO2 emission in his words were so infinitesimally small that it is inconsequential, the annex isn't a sealed space and in his opinion the combustion products would readily disperse and not cause a nuisance as described in the standard, so go figure.

Reading section 8 (above) of the standard as long as the flue doesn't exit into the annex you should be o/k, but don't quote me you still may need to consider the vents in and above the door. This thing is just really weird.

Dave

 

[Petecaz]

I am in the same boat with the annex. I rang the gas regulator people who emailed me a response. These caravans are allowed a full annex when the fridge is run on 12/ 240 volt. The rule only applies if running the fridge on gas. Jayco are just covering all bases by making this a bigger issue than it is.