Just got a phone call from Jayco SA to say that new laws in all states as of yesterday state that no new full annex can be put on any caravan with the fridge/stove on the same side for safety reasons (both old and new vans with now annex currently). Not sure what to do now, we have ordered and paid a deposit on a new 1756 02 OB due in August with an annex which we need! does anyone have more info or ideas around this?
17' Series Annex Safety Problems
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
have a search for the 2 previous threads, will link them when i find them,
in Qld a full anex must be fitted with upper and lower gas vents of an approved size, similar size to the van or only have 2 sides. may be ask will they fit/ install extra vents?
http://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/new-gas-regulations-for-qld-and-possible-aust-wide.4566/
http://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/no-full-annex-allowed.5296/page-3#post-79086
catch you later
peter
in Qld a full anex must be fitted with upper and lower gas vents of an approved size, similar size to the van or only have 2 sides. may be ask will they fit/ install extra vents?
http://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/new-gas-regulations-for-qld-and-possible-aust-wide.4566/
http://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/no-full-annex-allowed.5296/page-3#post-79086
catch you later
peter
Hi, thanks for your response. The dealer said the specifications say they strictly had to keep 30 percent of the annex clear for ventilation, which means 2 ends. The dealer offered to give me a canvas outside wall and 2 breathable mesh type walls for each end and also gave me a discount for my trouble. I rang several other Annex makers in SA this morning and they said they all had the call over the past week that this regulation was now in and they must comply. Extra vents were not an option as 30 percent of the annex is a lot of open space when the roof and walls are considered. The dealer said this was Australia wide as of yesterday and no one was warned about it. I rang 2 other people I know who have ordered similar vans and they are in the same boat. This affects new and old caravans who want a new annex. My understanding is that old annexes on vans fitted before the rule came in are ok.
That sounds ridiculous, is 30% one end not erected and say the skirt not attached?
What if the fridge is on the off side and only the stove/cooktop on the annexe side?
Will mean a complete re-design of most of the floor plans for Jayco.
What if the fridge is on the off side and only the stove/cooktop on the annexe side?
Will mean a complete re-design of most of the floor plans for Jayco.
That's what the dealer said. If either one of the fridge or stove is on the same side of the annex the rule applies. Apparently Jayco is redesigning all these caravans in the 2015 models to ensure fridge and stove are on the opposite side of the annex. I am a bit stuck on what to do as I pick up our new van in August...
I would like to see the actual regulation and what they base the 30% on.
Is it wall area? Does it count the wall of the van enclosed by the annexe?
Does it take into account if the cooktop has an external vent outside of the annexe?
What is the reason for this new regulation?
Have there been accidents with exhaust gases causing issues?
How does an annexe impact on this issue?
Have the various stakeholders been consulted eg van makers, caravanners?
So many unanswered questions.
Seems to me some bureaucrat had a brain fizz to me!
Is it wall area? Does it count the wall of the van enclosed by the annexe?
Does it take into account if the cooktop has an external vent outside of the annexe?
What is the reason for this new regulation?
Have there been accidents with exhaust gases causing issues?
How does an annexe impact on this issue?
Have the various stakeholders been consulted eg van makers, caravanners?
So many unanswered questions.
Seems to me some bureaucrat had a brain fizz to me!
I have a lot of questions to. According to some external Annex makers (separate from Jayco) that I have contacted, and our jayco dealer, the 30 percent includes the whole annex space (must be walls only, as the 2 ends would only be 30 percent of the walls). Apparently no consultation has been given with the van makers or annex makers just a ruling given over the past week. Fridges and stoves with external vent on the roof outside the annex are fine I think.
I felt sorry for the Jayco Manager who had to ring round to talk tell his customers...I think he's had some pretty angry people to deal with.
Apparently there was an incident in Perth where some people died as a result of their gas leaking from the fridge in a caravan, that's about all the info I could get out of them.
We are due to pick up our 17.56.2 in just over 2 weeks. The van will be at the dealership anyday now. I'm sure our annex would have been made and delivered, does it apply to a van already paid for, just waiting to be picked up?
Struggling to get any info from dealership. Maybe they don't know either?
Fingers crossed.
Struggling to get any info from dealership. Maybe they don't know either?
Fingers crossed.
Like I have said previously, some bureaucrat oxygen thief trying to justify his own existence and over the top salary, grrrr.:rant:
If it is from a dealer in Adelaide, My neighbour is in the same boat and got the call yesterday saying they can't give him the annex. His van has already arrived and is at the yard, annex made, but cannot give it. Instead they offered a one annex wall and two breathable mesh type ends.
Wow, that su(ks. I wonder if they could drop back later on and pick up the other sides quietly?
This is crazy. We've often debated the fridge issue but surely vents which are common these days would suffice. The van has not got 30% ventilation?!
What about the oven? It doesn't have a flue. It just vents into the van doesn't it? I'll be ropeable if my Starcraft comes without an annex!!!
What about the oven? It doesn't have a flue. It just vents into the van doesn't it? I'll be ropeable if my Starcraft comes without an annex!!!
So after a bit of research, this all seems to be coming from the latest version of the standard AS/NZS 5601.2:2013.
Under the standard, the definition of a caravan is:
1.7.7 Caravan
A structure that was designed or adapted to be moved from one place to another, whether
towed or transported, which is intended for human habitation or use as a workplace, and
includes a self-propelled recreational vehicle or mobile home. Included is any associated
annex and the like, whether permanently or temporarily attached to or adjoining the main
portion of the structure.
The section on ventilation is a little more complex than has been stated here with regard to the figure of 30% of the awning needing to be open.
There is a calculation based on the gas consumption of the appliance(s), the free area and the number of people sleeping in the space, however that does not seem to be applicable to the annex, however the following note does:
NOTES:
1 This formula applies to any space inside the caravan or boat where gas appliances are
installed. If the space is a normally divided part of the caravan or boat, or can be divided
temporarily by means of doors, curtains, etc., the ventilation openings should be located in
that space.
Because the gas appliances are venting into the annex, then the minimum ventilation requirements that would ordinarily apply to inside the caravan will apply to the annex.
7.3.1 Minimum free area
The free area of the total permanent ventilation for any space in which a gas appliance is
installed shall be at least 4000 mm2 or the value obtained from the formula below,
whichever is the greater:
V = (610 × U) + (650 × P)
where
V = minimum free area, in mm2
U = input rating for all gas appliances, (other than room sealed) in the space,
including cookers, in MJ/h, refer to rating plate
P = number of sleeping spaces in the caravan or boat
Example calculation
For a caravan designed to sleep 3 people, and having a gas cooker rated at 29 MJ/h (8 kW),
the minimum free area for ventilation, V, is (610 × 29) + (650 × 3) = 19 640 mm2.
How this formula has been applied to an annex, particularly when it is not being used for sleeping purposes, and when it has been isolated from the caravan by shutting the door is anyone's guess, however I assume the manufacturers are erring on the side of caution by stating that they need huge vents.
Under the standard, the definition of a caravan is:
1.7.7 Caravan
A structure that was designed or adapted to be moved from one place to another, whether
towed or transported, which is intended for human habitation or use as a workplace, and
includes a self-propelled recreational vehicle or mobile home. Included is any associated
annex and the like, whether permanently or temporarily attached to or adjoining the main
portion of the structure.
The section on ventilation is a little more complex than has been stated here with regard to the figure of 30% of the awning needing to be open.
There is a calculation based on the gas consumption of the appliance(s), the free area and the number of people sleeping in the space, however that does not seem to be applicable to the annex, however the following note does:
NOTES:
1 This formula applies to any space inside the caravan or boat where gas appliances are
installed. If the space is a normally divided part of the caravan or boat, or can be divided
temporarily by means of doors, curtains, etc., the ventilation openings should be located in
that space.
Because the gas appliances are venting into the annex, then the minimum ventilation requirements that would ordinarily apply to inside the caravan will apply to the annex.
7.3.1 Minimum free area
The free area of the total permanent ventilation for any space in which a gas appliance is
installed shall be at least 4000 mm2 or the value obtained from the formula below,
whichever is the greater:
V = (610 × U) + (650 × P)
where
V = minimum free area, in mm2
U = input rating for all gas appliances, (other than room sealed) in the space,
including cookers, in MJ/h, refer to rating plate
P = number of sleeping spaces in the caravan or boat
Example calculation
For a caravan designed to sleep 3 people, and having a gas cooker rated at 29 MJ/h (8 kW),
the minimum free area for ventilation, V, is (610 × 29) + (650 × 3) = 19 640 mm2.
How this formula has been applied to an annex, particularly when it is not being used for sleeping purposes, and when it has been isolated from the caravan by shutting the door is anyone's guess, however I assume the manufacturers are erring on the side of caution by stating that they need huge vents.
Dammit, who would have thought we all should have paid more attention in maths so we can use a caravan annex?
That means a vent in the 'annex' if only the gas cooker has a vent that opens into the Annex is 200mm x 100mm.
About the size of the vent in the bottom of the door of the Panda.
That does not equate to 1 whole wall of the annex!
Would need to apply the formulae and calculate the size of the vent required.
Maybe, don't take my word for it, vents in the annex need to be at least the same, probably greater than the total size of the vents as measured on the size of the Panda for Fridge, Water Heater, cooktop.
Vent in my Panda for cooktop is about 200mm x 100mm
My fridge and water heater are on the off side of the van thanks goodness.
Maybe, don't take my word for it, vents in the annex need to be at least the same, probably greater than the total size of the vents as measured on the size of the Panda for Fridge, Water Heater, cooktop.
Vent in my Panda for cooktop is about 200mm x 100mm
My fridge and water heater are on the off side of the van thanks goodness.