3 way fridge on 12v

[Racer]

Optima are a good battery. I drive a 150 Prado running the same style of alternator, people will argue for years about dual battery setups but I am happy with my setup.

One thing that swayed me to Exide was the weight, Prados have a habit of crackin the inner guards however mostly found with 30kg batteries. The Exide comes in at 22kg.

 

[Ss--ss]

I run dual batteries in the prado with an Andersen connector & 7pin plug. When I had a Hawk I wired it so the fridge & hawk battery were directly connected to the hawk.. I put a switched fuse behind the fridge in the vent so I could manually isolate when stopped for a while.. With the dometic 3way 90l fridge I tested with a multimeter & it uses a constant 17amps, so you wouldn't want to run it off batteries to long. But now I have engel fridges in the car don't think I will bother. Also the dometic 3way if not opened while driving can stay pretty cool for at least half day.

 

[boots33]

Our setup is currently an 80AH second battery in the car connected via anderson plug with 6B&S cable. It is charged by a CTEK D250s DC/DC charger setup. On our last trip (past 4wks) our second battery (4mth old powercrank marine battery that was recommended by powercrank at Rocklea Brisbane) did not keep the charge up whilst running along for anymore than an hour (we never left it plugged in whilst stopped). We had the engel (max 2.75ah) connected along with the van fridge (max 15ah) and charging both batteries. The CTEK says you can run battery banks of around 300ah. Im not a battery charge specialist or anything so not sure if the drain is too much for CTEK? Anyone have any thoughts on this setup?

Hey Ants

Not totally clear on how you are setup (a drawing would be good) but some of the bellow may help / be relevant.

With both fridges combined maxing out at around 18A You are drawing very close to the 20A maximum that the D250 can supply. You certainly are going to be in trouble if one of the batteries is flat as the d250 will have little to spare for charging.

Still if you are starting out with your batteries fully charged the d250 should be able to (just) keep up with your needs. So if you are seeing a rapid loss of charge from your aux battery here are a few things you can try in no particular order.

Even new batteries can be faulty so get it tested to make sure it is ok, Many battery suppliers will do the test for no charge. Make sure you have the battery fully charged before you take it to be tested.

Verify the amount of power the fridges are drawing. While manufacturers spec sheets are usually fairly accurate I have seen some wide variations at times as well. As you don't have a lot to spare you need to see exactly how many amps are being drawn.

The D250s can have issues working with smart alternators. From memory they are set to dis-connect at around 12.8v and won't re-connect till they see 13.1v. With many smart alternators only running at around the 13v mark it will take only a very small amount of voltage drop (which you are likely to be getting with a draw of 18A) to take the d250 offline. Then you will have no charge going to the battery at all, this will of course cause your battery to go flat rather quickly .

To check this you will need to have a volt meter hooked up to your aux battery the next time you are away and see if the d250 is dropping out.

Ctek have a work around as shown near the bottom of this thread

If you do have to do the ctek work around you may also want to consider moving the supply for your engel fridge to the input side of your d250 as well. This will reduce the load on your d250 (I am not a big fan of running things close to their max all the time) and leave it at least a little bit more head room for charging if required.

You need to remember the d250 is meant primarily as a battery charging device and any constant power drains you put on it will impact on it's ability to work as a charger.

 

[Drover]

Soon as I saw a @boots33 post I thought "here's some good info" not disapointed either, the other thing is if you have your 3 way fully run up before you hit the road there's usually no need to actually have it running between camps, though mine is only a small unit the temp doesn't change very much after a 5hr run with no power, plug in or fire up gas at camp, all is good and thats with a smoko stop.
This trip I even forgot to connect my Engel up to 12v but that night after 6 hrs off my beer was still nice and cold.
My Engel will keep the beer cold in 35deg running off a 120amp battery for 3 days without charging, can get 4.5days with wet bag over fridge.

 

[boots33]

Yeah @Drover I know a few people who don't bother to power their fridges while on the road. I usually have mine turned on but have forgotten to switch it over from 240 a couple of times and still had cold beer at the destination. There is no doubt that the 3 way fridges are real pigs when it comes to 12v power usage but they can be a handy combo as well.

 

[Drover]

Yep, agree with you @boots33 , my Engel has done sterling service since 1978 but a 3 way while a bastard on 12v is sure handy with the Gas.

 

[Marv_mart]

Yep, agree with you @boots33 , my Engel has done sterling service since 1978 but a 3 way while a bastard on 12v is sure handy with the Gas.

Agree, run mine from my Thumper while driving, this in turn is trickle charged as I'm driving.
Use it on 240 when available or from portable solar when not. Always manages to keep the drinks cold!

 

[Antman]

Hi @boots33
Thanks heaps for the info above.
I do have it installed with CTEK work around.

I will check the amp draw on both fridges, this was my next step anyway.

What i found quite interesting is the fact that my father in law, who drives a 2008 prado and has his second battery (still a powercrank) setup to charge from the alternator was also having the same problem with the second battery in the car being half to 3/4 flat when pulling up after 4 to 6 hours driving time. I called powercrank whilst we were away also and they didn't want to help or offer any suggestions at all so this is one brand / shop i will not be going to in the future - especially since we gave them the details of what we were doing. I think that it is just poor form. The other thing that does leave a sour taste in my mouth is that my father in law bought one of these batteries before the 2 that are currently installed and it failed in about 8wks. They swapped under warranty for him but at this point to me, it looks like these batteries are a cheap import that are just not designed for our climate or situation.

The engel was setup specifically to draw off the 2nd battery so that i could leave it plugged in if need be so i don't really want to move it to the other side

It could certainly be the CTEK dropping the charge out. A battery guy has offered to test for me. So that is good.

My steps from here, I'm going to move my main battery to the smaller 2nd battery tray and then replace the powercrank with a larger AH battery. This excludes the optima batteries as their biggest is 75ah from what i have seen. I will get 100ah in the main battery tray. Has anyone had any experience with the Ultimate Extreme batteries before?

Again thanks for the input its really appreciated.
Cheers
Ants

 

[Marv_mart]

Hi @boots33
Thanks heaps for the info above.
I do have it installed with CTEK work around.

I will check the amp draw on both fridges, this was my next step anyway.

What i found quite interesting is the fact that my father in law, who drives a 2008 prado and has his second battery (still a powercrank) setup to charge from the alternator was also having the same problem with the second battery in the car being half to 3/4 flat when pulling up after 4 to 6 hours driving time. I called powercrank whilst we were away also and they didn't want to help or offer any suggestions at all so this is one brand / shop i will not be going to in the future - especially since we gave them the details of what we were doing. I think that it is just poor form. The other thing that does leave a sour taste in my mouth is that my father in law bought one of these batteries before the 2 that are currently installed and it failed in about 8wks. They swapped under warranty for him but at this point to me, it looks like these batteries are a cheap import that are just not designed for our climate or situation.

The engel was setup specifically to draw off the 2nd battery so that i could leave it plugged in if need be so i don't really want to move it to the other side

It could certainly be the CTEK dropping the charge out. A battery guy has offered to test for me. So that is good.

My steps from here, I'm going to move my main battery to the smaller 2nd battery tray and then replace the powercrank with a larger AH battery. This excludes the optima batteries as their biggest is 75ah from what i have seen. I will get 100ah in the main battery tray. Has anyone had any experience with the Ultimate Extreme batteries before?

Again thanks for the input its really appreciated.
Cheers
Ants

From what 'Home of 12V' told me, if you run your fridge from the thumper (my 2nd battery) while driving, will slowly flatten that battery even if that is being trickle charged as you drive. Since that advice, I have changed my config, will plug fridge straight into 12v Aux when driving and plug in my thumper in second Aux to keep it charged, when I stop, swap fridge to run from Thumper or if staying immobile for a while, 240V if available or portable Solar direct to fridge.
This have no trouble on last long trip, always ensured my Thumper had enough oomph to start the deisel is required in an emergency.
I know this config is different to what a lot of others have. Have also tested Anderson feed from tug direct to van fridge when driving, this does isolate when ignition is turned off protecting tug batteries. Also found, unlike in my Penguin, can't get 12V from van back through my van Anderson plug to plug in my fridge or ext lights for example, must have diode protection, will have to ask next time. If I take my 3 way fridge out of the tub, can use 240 V from ext van plug if available, gas, 12V from external Aux in annexe or 12V from portable solar. Lots of options there!

 

[boots33]

I do have it installed with CTEK work around.

Good then that should rule out any chance of the ctek dropping out due to voltage drop.

I will check the amp draw on both fridges, this was my next step anyway.

Yes that should be your next step. I see that @Ss--ss has done a draw test on his 90ltr and it is drawing a constant 17Amp. So you really are pushing past what the ctek can comfortably supply if that is the case for you too.

What i found quite interesting is the fact that my father in law, who drives a 2008 prado and has his second battery (still a powercrank) setup to charge from the alternator was also having the same problem with the second battery in the car being half to 3/4 flat when pulling up after 4 to 6 hours driving time. I called powercrank whilst we were away also and they didn't want to help or offer any suggestions at all so this is one brand / shop i will not be going to in the future - especially since we gave them the details of what we were doing. I think that it is just poor form. The other thing that does leave a sour taste in my mouth is that my father in law bought one of these batteries before the 2 that are currently installed and it failed in about 8wks. They swapped under warranty for him but at this point to me, it looks like these batteries are a cheap import that are just not designed for our climate or situation.

Don't know much about powercrank but it sounds like they aren't trying real hard to get your return business. I can only suggest your father in law pay a visit to an auto sparky to see where the power is going. Smart alternators can be a real P.I.T.A. when it comes to looking after auxiliary batteries.

The engel was setup specifically to draw off the 2nd battery so that i could leave it plugged in if need be so i don't really want to move it to the other side

Then you may need to look at ways to supply more power to your auxiliary batteries. Ctek do have their smart pass which will work with the d250. While it will give you the potential to supply a lot more current it will not have the same "voltage boost" that your d250 does as it is just a through connection. In the end you may be better of to try and sell the d250 and buy a bigger dc-dc charger or even consider running a separate feed to power your van fridge. that would free up a large amount of your d250's capacity.

It could certainly be the CTEK dropping the charge out. A battery guy has offered to test for me. So that is good.

It should not be dropping out if you have the ctek smart alternator mod. But yes get it checked to make sure. I know it could be a little extra trouble but you should have the tests done with the van hooked up as well. the extra draw of the van fridge and battery will make a significant difference.

My steps from here, I'm going to move my main battery to the smaller 2nd battery tray and then replace the powercrank with a larger AH battery. This excludes the optima batteries as their biggest is 75ah from what i have seen. I will get 100ah in the main battery tray. Has anyone had any experience with the Ultimate Extreme batteries before?

While the power crank battery may be one of your problems (get it tested) you will still need to have the overall system checked to see what needs to be done to get it right. If as it stands you are drawing more than the d250 can supply then a bigger capacity battery will still eventually run down as well, it will just take a bit longer to get there. If your system is working as it should your batteries should play little to no role in powering your fridges while your vehicle is running. That power will come solely from you vehicles alternator. The only time power should need to be drawn from the aux battery is if you want to run the fridge when the engine is off.

Again thanks for the input its really appreciated.

no worries Ants, electrical problems can get a bit hairy at times. You should really try and get an auto sparky to check it all out before you start to replace batteries etc. Unless there is something very strange going on they should be able to tell you exactly where the trouble lies fairly quickly.

 

[bigman0510]

Yeah @Drover I know a few people who don't bother to power their fridges while on the road.

I am one of those people and look at the climate I am in! Never had an issue! Always have it cold and full before we leave.

 

[Racer]

One thing i have learnt is these 3 way fridges are hopeless compared to the 12/240 compressor style. They get there eventually.....lucky i run the Evakool for my beer

 

[bigman0510]

One thing i have learnt is these 3 way fridges are hopeless compared to the 12/240 compressor style. They get there eventually.....lucky i run the Evakool for my beer

I have never had an issue with the 3 way fridges in both of my Jayco's. but I do put all the items that are accessed regularly in the Waeco, Grog is high on that list!!

 

[Racer]

I had the a Waeco CR110 in the Flamingo. Sucked the battery.....was cold in 1hr tops, these 3 ways are a 24hr job

 

[bigman0510]

I had the a Waeco CR110 in the Flamingo. Sucked the battery.....was cold in 1hr tops, these 3 ways are a 24hr job

There is no doubt about that cooling time, but when free camping and it's running on gas it's awesome, I have thought about going full 12v for the fridge but I am paranoid now about the battery when free camping. If there was a compressor fridge with gas as well that would be the go!

 

[Racer]

Very true. They suck the battery, the CR110 has the same compressor a 35l waeco runs.

 

[Drover]

My 3 way is bloody brilliant after I fixed it by rebuilding the vent, it wasn't installed correctly like most of them, I added 2 computer fans and now it will chill a beer down in 30 mins on setting 4 on a hot day, turn the dam thing up to 5 and it will freeze.

 

[bigman0510]

My 3 way is bloody brilliant after I fixed it by rebuilding the vent, it wasn't installed correctly like most of them, I added 2 computer fans and now it will chill a beer down in 30 mins on setting 4 on a hot day, turn the dam thing up to 5 and it will freeze.

Did you have pictures of this on your thread? I'm intrigued, your figures make me excited!!

 

[Antman]

Then you may need to look at ways to supply more power to your auxiliary batteries. Ctek do have their smart pass which will work with the d250. While it will give you the potential to supply a lot more current it will not have the same "voltage boost" that your d250 does as it is just a through connection. In the end you may be better of to try and sell the d250 and buy a bigger dc-dc charger or even consider running a separate feed to power your van fridge. that would free up a large amount of your d250's capacity.

Hey @boots33
when you say a separate feed, do you mean from the alternator and not from the 2nd battery?
Cheers mate
Ants

 

[Drover]

Did you have pictures of this on your thread? I'm intrigued, your figures make me excited!!

Yes mate a couple of pics of the fan and switch but none on the baffle upgrade, just too hard......there is a thread on it somewhere but you just have to have the air coming in at the bottom and have it flow only thru the cooling fins and seal up any gaps which allow the air to fill cupboard spaces or escape thru cable runs etc and then direct the air out the upper vent with fans fitted to draw it thru . With a cold fridge and alloy cans a couple of beers will cool pretty quick, of course if you shove 6 or more in it will take longer but you can definetly freeze the thing solid if its turned up too high, tested and proven, lettuce, eggs, tomatoes not very happy.