Lifting towball coupling on 16.49OB

[Tailor]

I want to install a WDH on my 16.49OB, but measuring the coupling height on the van, against my Cruiser ute, the coupling is way too low. Most vans I have seen have the coupling on top of the draw bar. Mine is underneath.

As a matter of interest, is this position normal, or specially requested for a low car.? Will be going to the show in Bris tomorrow, so maybe the sales guy will be able to give me an answer on that.

With the Hayman Reece WDH I am too low to even get the bars attached to the vehicle. If I had the coupling 100 + mm higher it would solve the problem.

My first thought was to get another plate welded on top of the drawbar, which would entail some pain. Second thought was to drop the axle under the springs, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea with the single axle. I gather you can get spacers for the coupling, but the amount I need to lift it would tend to make me feel wary about the stress on the longer bolts.

Any comments, or other ideas would be welcomed.

 

[millers]

Tailor,

See the link http://www.expandasdownunder.com/showthread.php/1135-Mods-Issues-amp-wish-list-for-16-49-1 to see a 16.49OB with 50mm block, note the comment about the modification required for the brake handle. Also Hayman Reece (and I am sure others) do a number of step downs for the tow hitch. When I questioned Jayco Dealer they said they can not lift which is real bad for 4x4. Luck for me the 50mm is perfect. And you are right 100mm lift is not a good idea.

Good luck with it.

Steve

 

[chartrock]

At the show tomorrow, call and see the guy from Aranda towbars, downstairs in the building behind the Kedron vans. He told me they weld a plate on top of the draw bar while leaving the original on the bottom. This does not weaken the setup, in fact strengthening it. I did not ask about the handbrake but they must have some way around it.

 

[millers]

If you weld a plate on top and then move the coupling from the bottom to the top then you should not have a problem with the hand brake as the lever will go between the plates. The issue is when using the 50mm block as it stops the hand brake (bottom portion) from going under. Note that this is a guess based on the fact that for the OB this is 150mm. I also assume that doing this means that the bottom plate is no longer useable as the top plate will get in the way of the coupling handle and hand brake. The only limitation of this is that the van will sit low at the front on standard cars (which is not an issue as you would not modify it if you had a standard car) (raving on sorry).

Steve

 

[Tailor]

Hi Steve and Chartrock,

Thank you both for your advice.

Steve, I know Hayman Reece do have longer stepdowns, but that would only make it worse, as because of having to angle the bars down I physically cannot fit the bars on with the normal dropdown, even set down to it's lowest hole. I won't have my van back until Tuesday, but from memory it's only the angle of the cable from the handbrake which is most likely to be a worry. Raving on is not a worry, it sometimes clears up points for others.

Loved your comments re mods to your van. Must be a lot of vanners who think alike. We have internal shower and toilet and when using the sink the waste water used to come up in the ensuite. Because Jayco use pressure pipe for the waste, I couldn't get a suitable standard Y junction. I got some pressure fittings and had a workshop turn off about 1mm of each so they would fit a normal drain Y junction (see whimper below). Since then, there hasn't been a problem. Also cut my sullage hose and use clear plastic joiners as required. Your idea of a lot of smaller pieces is great. At one caravan show they had bags made from shadecloth for hoses, a bit exey at $25. A bit of a pain with stiff hose, but we only pull out as much as needed. Keeps the hoses nice, clean and compact, and when replacing the hose I hold a piece of rag in one hand to clean the hose as I replace it. I also got one for the 15amp cable.The guy who made my annex also made an extra bag, so I can keep the walls and ends seperate. In my spare wheel I strap in two 50mm thick hardwood blocks in case I need them under the jockey wheel. Fortunately my cruiser ute which is setup for work and beach fishing, slotted perfectly into being a tow vehicle, and has the added advantage of plenty of carrying capacity. If I run out of space inside I can use the 2.8 mtr roof rack.

Edit. Do you have a good idea on where to stick a ladder? I did have a folding kitchen ladder in the front tunnel, but changed to 2 step Bailey and there is no where in the van to store it.

Chartrock, I will definately see the guys from Aranda. This mod was my original thought after a couple of sherberts to activate the brain. I'm sure the handbrake can be modified. If I still had my workshop (whimper), I'd have been able to do this all myself. I did have lathe, mig, oxy, horizontal mill, surface grinder etc. but was forced to give them up years ago. It was like cutting off an arm. I get depressed every time I want to do a job which used to be so simple.

 

[Tailor]

Back from the show.

Saw the Jayco guy and was told it was not detrimental to undersling the axle on the single axle 16.49OB. If this is correct it would suit me better than raising the coupling.

Aranda towbars said the approx cost of modifying the drawbar would be about $250, depending the the work necessary.

Choices, choices !! Although lifting the whole chassis seems more appealing when towing on sand as it would also lift the spare wheeel frame.

 

[millers]

Tailor, Understand the issue with the bars. I do not know if you have the WDH that allows the angle of the bars to be changed. I did not and was runnning them very close to the ground and on the last chain link prior to adding the 50mm block. As for the handbrake cable there are guides on the A frame with rounded corners so I would not think that these being on an angle would cause any concern. In fact I am sure that the 50mm lift improved the alignement.

As for the ladder we bought the txp ladder that folds down, prior too that needed to carry it in the back of the pathfinder.

Steve

 

[boots33]

Hi Tailor

You have run into a common problem with outback expanders and an area where jayco fail miserably to give their customers what they want. fitting 50mm lift blocks is a popular way to go but it is getting harder to find a jayco dealer willing to make the mod for you. I know chartrock got his done by tweed jayco but when i enquired there recently they said they will no longer do it and suggested i go to an engineering works to get the job done. There was a claim in one of the other posts on this subject that jayco has advised their dealers not to do this mod any more. Whatever you decide to do you should keep the hitch height inside the ADR specifications or you could run into trouble with insurance etc if you ever have an accident. have a look here http://www.towingguide.com.au/content/couplings.html and you will see the maximum allowable height is 460mm to the centre of the ball.

 

[stormpatrol]

plate on top

Hi tailor mate the new plate on top of the draw bar is the go, for us it was anyways, i have a nissan patrol and it was a joke that a outback van had the hitch under the drawbar so i made the plate and welded it on myself , [yes i can weld boily for 30 years plus], , the welds on the van are a bit shady but thats ok the 10mm plate works a treat . When we took van back to dealer they did not say a thing dont think they even noticed it , im in the process of fabbing a new rear bar plus bike carrier , once again the rear bar on the outback is very light duty ,towel rack comes to mind but its too low for towels . pity you are not closer i could of fitted the plate for you..

 

[stormpatrol]

you can see the hitch in this pic on top of chassis

 

[Tailor]

Millers,boot33 and stormpatrol, thanks guys for your comments. I appreciate your time and effort.

Steve: Yes, I have a new Hayman Reece with the ability to change the angle of the towball and the new cast dropdown. After reading your post, thought I'd have another go at this, and have found I wasn't angling the bars enough to the side to get them in.:embarassed:

boots33: I can't blame Jayco for this. My expanda was 8 months old when I bought it, and was obviously built for a low vehicle. I asked the rep at the show about the differences and he said Jayco had been loosing too many sales on outbacks because of the hitch height not being suitable for lower vehicles, so will do either option. I dont have a problem with that, all I want to do is modify it to suit my application. Underslung axle would be great, because it would lift the chassis and spare carrier in softer sand, but having read the link you provided, on ball heights, I doubt that solution would comply. The Jayco rep wasn't interested enough to give me more advice than a yes or no and gave me the impression I was wasting his time. It also looks as if I go with the added plate I could run into the same problem, which is why they may have only had 50mm spacers max. apart from the issue of long bolts.
Out with the tape measure and back to the drawing board. I'm wondering if they forgot about 4X4s when they did the design rules.

stormpatrol: Nice job, it also stregthens the drawbar, which is an added plus. I'm sorry you aren't closer, could certainly use the expertise. Being 70, i'm at the age of trying to reduce the amount of stuff I have. Over 50 years I've accumulated tools for half a dozen trades, and apart from the workshop can't bring myself to part with them as every so often they get used. Maybe I'll have to buy another Mig, I hate not being able to do things for myself, makes me feel old. I'd like a rear bar to carry the spare, and a bracket up front to carry an outboard one day. Thinking the two items would equalised the change in balance. The Mig is looking more enticing. Amazing how we can justify essential things for our toys.

 

[Moto Moto]

This sure is a common problem, i wish i went the simplicity suspension on my van to get a bit more height. I have a 50mm spacer under the coupling available through Jayco Canberra (not sure if they still do it).


I know mfexpanda did and axle flip on his 16 series OB recently, maybe send him a pm for more info. I have seriously considered this option with mine a few times for a number of reasons.

 

[boots33]

Hey Stormpatrol

The mod you have done to your hitch would suit me too but i am concerned about breaching the adr regs. To be legal trailers must fall into the specs of these regs. Interestingly in the federal gov Vehicle standards bulletin VSB1 there may be room for movement to get around the 460mm height restriction. I would be interested to hear how others would interpret the following passage from VSB 1. I have highlighted the relevant part in red.


16.4.1: 50mm Ball Couplings

Ball couplings used on trailers with an ATM that does not exceed 3.5 tonnes must comply with Australian Standard AS 4177.3-2004 Caravan and light trailer towing components Part 3: Coupling body for ball couplings.

Ball couplings on towbars are required to be installed so that the height of the centre of the body of the ball coupling is between 350mm and 420mm from the ground when laden (Refer to ADR 62/01). Alternatively, if complying with the requirements of ADR 62/02 the maximum height of the centre of the body of the ball coupling may be increased to 460mm. However, the ball may be installed at any other height, provided it is also capable of being adjusted to at least one height within the 350-460mm range.
The coupling body used on trailers should be designed to be compatible with these heights.



The way i read that means we can have the ball height on the car pretty well anywhere we like and the trailer hitch height is only a recommendation as they use the word "should" as their qualifier. The full VSB 1 document can be found here http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#16

 

[Tailor]

I'm still trying to come to terms with the ADRs on ball heights. When I establish that I can make a final decision on what to do. The insurance angle is a bit of a worry as we know some ins companies can be keen on the fine print.

Being new to the site, I'm still trying to find my way around. I presume by pm you mean a personal message? How do I go about doing that?

Thanks

 

[Moto Moto]

Hmmm that is interesting. Now i'm confused????

I swear there are so many van and camper brands out there that have hitch heights greater than 460mm from the factory to match up with 4wd's.

 

[Tailor]

Boots33.

Missed your new post before replying before, sorry.

Do we have any legal eagles in this forum? My intrepration of the quoted rules agrees with yours. "Provided it is capable of being adjusted etc", is the key. An adjustable ball carrier which can be set within the listed range should then apply.

Great work boots33, still would like legal advice for peace of mind.

 

[Moto Moto]

I'm still trying to come to terms with the ADRs on ball heights. When I establish that I can make a final decision on what to do. The insurance angle is a bit of a worry as we know some ins companies can be keen on the fine print.

Being new to the site, I'm still trying to find my way around. I presume by pm you mean a personal message? How do I go about doing that?

Thanks

Yes Private Message, you will see a link at the top left of your screen. Its like sending and email, pretty easy.

 

[Tailor]

Thanks Moto Moto,

I've sent a pm as suggested and will be very interested in details of tricks, problems etc involved in the change over.

Cheers

John

 

[boots33]

Hmmm that is interesting. Now i'm confused????

I swear there are so many van and camper brands out there that have hitch heights greater than 460mm from the factory to match up with 4wd's.

My thoughts exactly moto. I have seen numerous other off road vans that seem to be well above the 460mm limit. Have asked a few of the owners and they have said that is how it was supplied. I would love to put the plate on top like stormpatrol

 

[boots33]

Boots33.

Missed your new post before replying before, sorry.

Do we have any legal eagles in this forum? My intrepration of the quoted rules agrees with yours. "Provided it is capable of being adjusted etc", is the key. An adjustable ball carrier which can be set within the listed range should then apply.

Great work boots33, still would like legal advice for peace of mind.

Yes i am keen to get an answer on this as well and i think many others will be too. It would be good to get an answer from someone at the transport department. The hard part i bet would be to get them to put the answer in writing.