Hi Expandarers! My wife and 3 kids aged 8,6 & 2 have an on road eagle but now keen to move up to zn OB expanda. Just doing the numbers and the weight calculations from this forum and others. There is conglicting stories about whether the legal towing capacity is ATM or tare weight. Am going to ring transportsa in Adelaide to clarify. Just want to put to bed one comment I have read about if the van does exceed legal towing weight it does NOT automatically void your insurance. Any insurer cannot decline a claim unless the excess weight caused the accident. It is up to the insurer to prove this. We are protected by the insurance contracts act in that regard. Therefore if you are innocently driving and get cleaned up you will be covered. The excess weight ( and indeed illegal weight) did not cause or contribute to the accident . Trust that makes sense.
17' Series Want one..!
- Thread starter Gavin G
- Start date
Hi Gavin and welcome to the forum.
You maximum towing capacity is the 'actual' weight of the van. Tare weight is the van as it leaves the factory with no contents. ATM is the maximum weight including the contents. Thus the vehicle will be actually towing anywhere between the Tare and the ATM (legally), depending what you have put in the van. If looking at a vehicle which has a maximum limit of say 2000kg, then that is Tare plus contents.
In that context, you could have the scenario of where a vehicle is rated at 2000kg, the Tare of the van at 1700kg, the ATM of the van at 2100kg (more than the towing vehicle) and still be legal. However, the payload in the van could not exceed 300kg, as this would then take the 'actual' tow weigh to 2000kg which is the vehicle limit.
In terms of insurance, if a vehicles and van exceed their limits, they are not legally allowed to be on a public thoroughfare.
If involved in an accident, and the vehicle was not legal to be driven in the first place, then yes the insurance can be made void. It is irrespective of whether it was a contributing influence or not, just whether it was allowed to be there or not. This is the same as to if a car was registered or not. It may be safe to drive and its registration had no bearing on the accident, but if it wasn't legal, insurance won't touch them. You refer to the Insurance Contracts Act, which yes does refer to "Where the insured proves that some part of the loss that gave rise to the claim was not caused by the act, the insurer may not refuse to pay the claim, so far as it concerns that part of the loss, by reason only of the act." However, in taking out the insurance we agree to abide by the Terms and Conditions of the Policy which I'm sure will say somewhere that we need to be road legal.....if we could be bothered reading it
AAMi did advise at one point if only slightly over, they won't care. if about 10% over, it will be questioned, and if 20% over, no hope.
Andrew
edit: From AAMI website:
Am I covered if? If your caravan was loaded above the legal limit or loaded in an illegal way. NO
from CIL
We may refuse to pay a claim under this policy if:
- your caravan has been converted or modified by someone other than the manufacturer and these conversion or modification details are not shown in your schedule.
- your caravan is being towed while it is unregistered, or the towing vehicle is unregistered.
- your caravan is being towed contrary to any law.
- your caravan, or the way it is loaded, interferes with the proper control of the vehicle towing it or your caravan.
Lastly, at best, legal action may result in the insurer paying out on damages to the van even if overloaded, but I'd be pretty confident if something happened to another person, your Personal Liability insurance would be harder to get resolved....
Sorry to harp on, but I've been having to research this a bit myself lately since my ball weight is over limits...
You maximum towing capacity is the 'actual' weight of the van. Tare weight is the van as it leaves the factory with no contents. ATM is the maximum weight including the contents. Thus the vehicle will be actually towing anywhere between the Tare and the ATM (legally), depending what you have put in the van. If looking at a vehicle which has a maximum limit of say 2000kg, then that is Tare plus contents.
In that context, you could have the scenario of where a vehicle is rated at 2000kg, the Tare of the van at 1700kg, the ATM of the van at 2100kg (more than the towing vehicle) and still be legal. However, the payload in the van could not exceed 300kg, as this would then take the 'actual' tow weigh to 2000kg which is the vehicle limit.
In terms of insurance, if a vehicles and van exceed their limits, they are not legally allowed to be on a public thoroughfare.
If involved in an accident, and the vehicle was not legal to be driven in the first place, then yes the insurance can be made void. It is irrespective of whether it was a contributing influence or not, just whether it was allowed to be there or not. This is the same as to if a car was registered or not. It may be safe to drive and its registration had no bearing on the accident, but if it wasn't legal, insurance won't touch them. You refer to the Insurance Contracts Act, which yes does refer to "Where the insured proves that some part of the loss that gave rise to the claim was not caused by the act, the insurer may not refuse to pay the claim, so far as it concerns that part of the loss, by reason only of the act." However, in taking out the insurance we agree to abide by the Terms and Conditions of the Policy which I'm sure will say somewhere that we need to be road legal.....if we could be bothered reading it
AAMi did advise at one point if only slightly over, they won't care. if about 10% over, it will be questioned, and if 20% over, no hope.
Andrew
edit: From AAMI website:
Am I covered if? If your caravan was loaded above the legal limit or loaded in an illegal way. NO
from CIL
We may refuse to pay a claim under this policy if:
- your caravan has been converted or modified by someone other than the manufacturer and these conversion or modification details are not shown in your schedule.
- your caravan is being towed while it is unregistered, or the towing vehicle is unregistered.
- your caravan is being towed contrary to any law.
- your caravan, or the way it is loaded, interferes with the proper control of the vehicle towing it or your caravan.
Lastly, at best, legal action may result in the insurer paying out on damages to the van even if overloaded, but I'd be pretty confident if something happened to another person, your Personal Liability insurance would be harder to get resolved....
Sorry to harp on, but I've been having to research this a bit myself lately since my ball weight is over limits...
Damn..... I don't read stuff, I just look at the pictures. I have heard this before though (someone that had it happen to them first hand)
:welcome: to the forum Gavin
This topic has been covered in a couple of threads before but here is a few things that we all maybe need to take into consideration before packing any Van etc,
I'll use Expanda's as an example
-Expanda's are designed to carry a set weight so over loading or even incorrrect packing can lead to unsafe handling and braking characteristics of the Expanda and
-This may make towing unsafe to the occupants of the tow vehicle and other innocent road users.
-Is it worth overloaing to risk this?
-Vehicle makers also set there towing capacity to design parameters for the same reason as to not effect handling and braking.
-I can understand why an insurance companies would not cover an overloaded van as its operating outside what it was designed for.(Unless it has been reengineered which is a different matter)
-Truck drivers can face big fines for overloading there is a reason for this.
At the end of the day I guess the onus is on the owner/driver of the vehicle and I guess we have been all guilty at some stage of pushing the limits of weight. In terms of insurance I think it would be a big risk to risk being covered or not in terms of weight.
Just my 2c :thumb:
This topic has been covered in a couple of threads before but here is a few things that we all maybe need to take into consideration before packing any Van etc,
I'll use Expanda's as an example
-Expanda's are designed to carry a set weight so over loading or even incorrrect packing can lead to unsafe handling and braking characteristics of the Expanda and
-This may make towing unsafe to the occupants of the tow vehicle and other innocent road users.
-Is it worth overloaing to risk this?
-Vehicle makers also set there towing capacity to design parameters for the same reason as to not effect handling and braking.
-I can understand why an insurance companies would not cover an overloaded van as its operating outside what it was designed for.(Unless it has been reengineered which is a different matter)
-Truck drivers can face big fines for overloading there is a reason for this.
At the end of the day I guess the onus is on the owner/driver of the vehicle and I guess we have been all guilty at some stage of pushing the limits of weight. In terms of insurance I think it would be a big risk to risk being covered or not in terms of weight.
Just my 2c :thumb: