Towing and Crashing - an opinion.

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,723
19,450
113
QLD
This article is from Claytons Towing on the Sunny Coast in QLD, they attend a lot of carvan prangs.......It's a long read and only their opinion but one which I tend to agree with.
Please read it as I think it covers many important topics about towing.

## CARAVAN CRASHES - Our opinion why ##

We have been asked countless times why we seem to attend so many caravan crashes and each time what caused them. There are always thousands of different opinions but we are going to step out and explain some major points we think contribute to these incidents. This may cause a stir with the "experts" and contradict some online information; as we all know just because it is on google doesn’t mean it is right. We will stress though this is our opinion, we are not engineers, nor do we have special tickets (other than semi-trailer licences), so take it as you like. This opinion is by a group of us who, outside of work, all travel with large vans and have also attended hundreds of caravan crashes at work. With each crash, as we a have interest in caravanning, we look at what we think caused it and often chat to the drivers about their experiences, what they did, look how they set their van up, how different vans are manufactured. Often we see and hear similar problems. We never wanted to express our opinion online of what we thought caused individual accidents, as in some cases manufacturer and aftermarket suppliers may be inclined to sue us for those opinions.
Basically this post is not about one particular caravan crash, it is an overview.
Vehicle size and capacity. A vehicle loaded correctly of a decent size is safer than a vehicle that has a bit of paper saying it can. A large 4wd wagon is a fair lump of a car but a lot of these lighter utes out there have a higher towing capacity. Just because it says on paper it can tow 3.5 tonne it doesn't mean you’re going to be all good to tow even a 2.5 tonne van. For example a standard Toyota Prado weighs 2.22 tonne and can legally tow 2.5 tonnes but a standard D Max ute weighs just under 2 tonne but can “legally” tow 3.5 tonne. Main point is to ensure if you are using a ute to tow a large van, it needs to have a decent load in it, and we don’t mean a couple of fold up chairs and tables. Utes also have longer overhang compared to a wagon so when they start to get the wobbles up it’s like a counter lever, it's going to push your backside around a lot easier. Of course large 4wds crash, but we generally see them with larger vans behind. There is no doubt the heavier towing vehicle is, the better. Legally we still say half of the 4wd caravan combinations we see out there would be over loaded, especially over their gvm and gcm weight, but that’s a whole new subject we could write a book about.

Caravan weights. This is big one. You need to aim to have around 200 to 250 kgs weight on your tow ball with bigger vans. 10 percent of the caravan weight is a good rule of thumb for whatever size van you tow. Of course you need to have the rear of your tow vehicle set up for this load, and ensure it is legal. If you have no or limited downwards weight from the van going onto the tow hitch of your tow vehicle you’re really asking for trouble. Some vans are manufactured with nearly no tow ball weight, some are really scary, do your homework before you make your investment. Some actually work on the front tunnel being loaded with gear and water tanks being full. In some cases a empty or light loaded van ends up being more dangerous. It is really important to check where your water tanks are and understand as they get emptier the towball weight is changing. If you have two full water tanks in front of the axle, they can make a great difference to tow ball weight. But if you have one tank at the front and one at the rear it can act as another risky counter lever if you have the front empty and back full. Also some vans have waste water holding tanks at the back, so you could have camped and unknowingly just moved a 100 plus kgs of weight from your front drinking water tanks and put it in the rear waste tank. This causes a a see saw effect and could change your towball weight, to nothing, or even place a lift effect on the rear of the tow vehicle. Buy yourself a tow ball weight scale (about $70), and check your weight, take note of where your items are in the van and what your water levels are sitting at. Learn how your van works at different times, some people will be shocked. Lots of caravans we collect after accidents (when they stay together) we do see evenly balanced with the tow bar up in the air, or able to pick the drawbar up with one hand. This is a recipe for disaster and we consider the biggest factor for a lot of crashes we attend. Toy haulers that cart motorbikes etc in the back (yes we get them crashed) you really have to think a bit more about what you are doing.

A common comment we often hear and is actually in a lot of training manuals is, if you get the wobbles, speed up and it will pull out of it. We really have to pull this statement apart. Over three quarters of the people we rescue say, it got the wobbles, I gently accelerated to get out of it, and it all got worse quickly. Generally people get the wobbles up when they are going a bit quicker than their combination can handle and often slightly downhill (will cover this soon) so going faster in these situations will only make things worse. An exception would be if you are positive that you can lock your trailer brakes up via your trailer controller, acceleration “may” only then help. We still think the better emergency option is to press your emergency electric brake button or slightly press your brakes so they trailer electric brakes activate, as going faster in these scenarios often doesn't go well.

Electric brake controllers. When you’re on the highway turn them up high to provide solid braking to the trailer, if you need to emergency stop you want the trailer to be pulling up faster. If you go through town and turn them down due to brakes locking up at the lights, don’t forget to turn them up or they won't be there when needed. The older style controllers had a large solid lever you could grab the slide button to lock the trailer brakes on. The new controllers have a push button, critical thing is the button on lots of models only activate the brakes to what you have them set on. If you have the brakes turned down from in town, the button won't help if a emergency occurs. Lots of vans now have automatic emergency electronic stability control, these are great if operating correctly but make sure you don't fall into a false sense of security, they are only one piece of the puzzle that may help. We have seen people go into emergency situations where they depended on the emergency stability control to help, and appeared it didn’t. They run out of time to go back to the manual method of pressing button on brake controller, or slightly touching brakes, to activate the trailer brakes activate. It also needs to be mentioned trailer brakes of any type needs to be regularly checked, no matter what type you have fitted. If they aren’t operating correctly you have an issue. It only takes a simple wire off to stop the process. A good tip too is when you have a brake controller fitted to your vehicle, ensure it is in a very easy to access position while driving , it could be your lifeline.
Swaybars, (weight distribution hitch) another touchy subject. Do any of us have them? No. Do lots of caravans we see rolled have them? Yes. With a heavily loaded towball they can help. If you have low towball weight, we personally consider they make things worse. With their tension they really could provide the opposite result and have a dangerous lifting effect on the rear of your vehicle. If you are getting them, make sure you know what you are doing, know your weights or go to reputable companies who can give you the time to assist in having the right ones. These should not be used as a solution to a problem, only another tool that may help your towing experience. If they are used with limited tow ball weight we really feel you are making things worse.
Why are there so many accidents in our area? Big factor we see is that we have sections of highway that are downhill, with slight bends, 110 kmh zones, with some cross winds involved. As it is downhill people's speeds unknowingly come up in these sections a bit higher than they normally travel. The extra speed, downhill, winds, plus one or more of the above things discussed can lead to disaster. In real terms with the number of caravans on the road there are no more crashes than other vehicles, but the mess / disruption as well as stress they cause as they are often people's homes puts them in the lime light. We do tend to see every accident has at least two of the above factors involved.

As we said to start with, this is personal opinion. Feel welcome to comment below if you agree, disagree, any questions you may have and we will try our best to give our thoughts. In the end if we share our real life experiences and even if we can help prevent even one accident with our fellow caravanners our job is done.
 

davemc

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2013
4,360
4,737
113
55
Viewbank, Victoria
www.expandasdownunder.com
I saw that today..
Some interesting points.
I do think a lot of people push to get lower TBM mass for payload on tug or the crazy Paj 180/3000 rule.
You do wonder what it does to the van putting lots of weight in the rear.

Interesting the water. I was always told to travel with tanks full or at least front tank more then rear.
We have two front tanks and yes I keep thinking TBM into payload and GVM with both full.

Some of the comments are interesting about people loading overhead cupboards with heavy items,
Or high 4WD tyres and suspension moving the centre of gravity even higher.

The unloaded rear ute thing was interesting makes sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigcol and Drover

bigcol

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2012
6,814
10,164
113
Swan Valley Perth
its one of those "how long is a piece of string" type thingy

each individual thing is minor, but added all together make for an interesting mess on the hwy
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Drover

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,723
19,450
113
QLD
As said mainly because with a ute that has a 3.5t tow cap when you do the maths it's really only 2.8t, but the salesman said !!!! always crops up and people do not understand the weight thing, start at the GCM and work back.....damn I have said to myself keep away from the weights thing as too many stupid people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigcol and davemc

peterg

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2015
785
2,292
93
warrnambool
Just had someone tell me their dad bought a prado to replace their jeep to tow their silverline. The jeep was apparently rated to 3.5t. The prado is 2.5t or 2.7t never can remember. They told their dad he stuffed up.......dads response.... I've been towing for years, I know what I'm doing.

Clearly not. Recipe for disaster.

I think it is getting near time to tighten up rego laws for vans and tow rigs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drover

Crusty181

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
6,854
13,971
113
Mentone, VIC
Legally we still say half of the 4wd caravan combinations we see out there would be over loaded
I don't collect busted up vans, but I think only 50% overloaded is pretty conservative.

I think it is getting near time to tighten up rego laws for vans and tow rigs
Thanks Pete for trying to break it to me gently, but i think we are well and truly past that time. It's time for tow licenses and mandatory registration renewal weigh-ins. As a community, we cant be trusted left on our own.

and its not their fault - its always someone elses
I blame you for that
 

davemc

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2013
4,360
4,737
113
55
Viewbank, Victoria
www.expandasdownunder.com
We did a course and people here seen us reverse. I do not have the bad days I used to although its still good or 2-3 or 4-5 tries :)

Problem about taking your van over the scales once a year for rego.
Everyone would empty out the van on that day only have 5 litres of fuel, no water, no gas.
They then be good.

Like my cousins in NSW used to have a set of road legal not over wide tyres everyone would borrow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigcol and Drover

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,723
19,450
113
QLD
I don't collect busted up vans, but I think only 50% overloaded is pretty conservative.

Damn I hate it when I agree with you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Pete for trying to break it to me gently, but i think we are well and truly past that time. It's time for tow licenses and mandatory registration renewal weigh-ins. As a community, we cant be trusted left on our own.

So long as Red Banded licences are good for Van towing I will stand with you on the soap box.....................so long as the weather is nice and I can go to the beach.......if they retest it better be in feet and inches.
 

achjimmy

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2011
3,031
3,401
113
I've commented on this before. I had a 2000 rodeo that had a 1800kg capacity. My bil had a 2014 dmax that had a 3000kg capacity . The chassis where not considerably bigger ! Next year all the dmax competitors had 3500 kg capacity so dmax was magically re engineered with no difference and had 3500 kg for the next year!!

I think if you tow anywhere near 3 -3.5 tonne with the current crop of dual cabs your mad. I've had 2.5 behind the cruiser and iam not fussed. Before we had all these wiz kid genius engineers to tell us, common sense rule was not to exceed our tug mass as tow capacity!?!?

If you hav ever towed behind the yank utes you'll know what track width and vehicle mass does for stability, not to mention simple stable live rear axle over fancy independent . You'll see more Dodge Ram/chev Silverado / Ftrucks as people wake up imo
 

Crusty181

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
6,854
13,971
113
Mentone, VIC
Problem about taking your van over the scales once a year for rego.
Everyone would empty out the van on that day only have 5 litres of fuel, no water, no gas.
They then be good.
I hear you Dave, but the yearly weigh-in could be nothing more than free education, and more importantly a recorded acceptance you are fully aware of your particular actual limits. That would then translate to zero lenience out on the road side checks when you get weighed out on the highways and byways, and the lovely VicRoads or friendly Constables produce your last recorded rego weigh-in details ... now that could be embarrassing. There could be maybe a fine and an on the spot tow endorsement suspension for a period of time. Ignorance has been removed, and arrogance would cost both money and inconvenience.

The conscientious folk making the effort, are given a free weight check every year to help them to help us all to stay safe together. As I said, the reason we are so over governed and our lives micromanaged is because we simply cant be trusted to just do the right thing on our own. Amen

Damn I hate it when I agree with you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kinda creeps me out too @Drover. Lets just agree to not make a habit of it
 

davemc

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2013
4,360
4,737
113
55
Viewbank, Victoria
www.expandasdownunder.com
You wonder how many vans are not over even a little ;)

I agree with the old tug heavier then van
Problem is vans getting heavier all the time we looked at some Lotus vans they all have 3500 ATM. Anyone with even a Disco or 200 series towing 3500 be close to over if not over with 350 TBM. Unless the car has only a couple of people in it.

Also a standard way payload is calculated. Everyone should be Kerb weight not 10 litres fuel or driver and full fluids.
Your max towing should be GCM-GVM.. Not well if you take 300kg of payload you can tow 300kg more or whatever voodoo.
Makes it easier apple vs apple.
I also be happy if people had to or just weighed their rigs after the put bars on the front, racks, a fridge and 2nd spare.
 

davemc

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2013
4,360
4,737
113
55
Viewbank, Victoria
www.expandasdownunder.com
I will add this as well.. after watching too many dash cam videos
There always be stupid people.. or good people who do something stupid for 10 seconds
Best you can do is try to be safe as you can be and hope others do as well

We are under GCM although we be close to GVM/ATM depending how much water or crap we have and I do watch things.
All it takes is one stupid mistake and we be on facebook about how we did not use WDH or something.
 

bigcol

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2012
6,814
10,164
113
Swan Valley Perth
I think it is the prevalence of social media that is highlighting a problem that in reality is not there

how many caravans on the road
how many kms are clocked up yearly
how many accidents happen

the "armchair" experts all say it is "newbies" to towing who are having the accidents

but a look at that Towing site shows they look mostly more like "seasoned" travelers, they are not all brand new, and most are fully loaded, so me thinks not "newbies"

are we becoming complacent with our driving, because we are "seasoned" travelers, or is that section of the Bruce Hwy really that baddly designed
something about 1/2 doz in same area in 6 months

is it because of the "terminal" speed at which towing is governed (or not) a major factor, or a minor one

on a side note................
since this subject reared its ugly head last Sept. I have searched WA local papers and web sites
2 caravan accidents on Northwest Coastal Hwy
1 ran off the road
1 rolled because they fell asleep
and 2 on Indian Ocean Drive / Wannaroo Rd
both head on's

same time period there was 15 truck roll overs and 5 truck head on's

the "Professional Drivers" are winning
 

Crusty181

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
6,854
13,971
113
Mentone, VIC
You wonder how many vans are not over even a little
Under my new system, only those rich folk with plenty of time to kill camped on the side of the highway

the "armchair" experts all say it is "newbies" to towing who are having the accidents .... are we becoming complacent with our driving, because we are "seasoned" travelers
Ive not given that much thought before. Im with you @bigcol, in the beginning was probably the only time we were ever hyper careful. I would only expect the newbies to be breaking eggs, spilling sugar through the pantry, forgetting to turn on the beer fridge, maybe reversing into a few trees, side swiping some c/park street signs and likely sleeping on an angle.

Driving 10,000's of kilometers in a straight line towing a caravan without incident make us all experts in, um .... towing a caravan in a straight line; and that's about it really.
 

warren cook

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2016
280
619
93
46
Western Sydney
To throw another spanner in the conversation:

What about the nuggets on the road that do not know how to allow people with caravans to merge on freeways, swap lanes etc etc.

On my last trip I found that when merging on to the freeway it was only the truckies that moved over a lane to allow me in and merge correctly, they like bike riders know how to read what is happening in front of them and act accordingly, it is like the car drivers do not want to get 'stuck' behind a caravan and speed up to stop me getting in, or they just are not thinking full stop, I am sure the truck drivers get the same treatment.

But the amount of normal everyday car drivers that just pull in front of a space I left between myself and the motor in front was really p!$$!ng me off.

I am not deflecting blame away as I have also seen some ridiculous stuff from Caravanning idiots too, but no one has mentioned the everyday drivers impact on accidents with caravans either, as most have never driven a truck, towed a caravan or cruised on a bike they do not know how to work with us on the roads and quite clearly can cause these accidents, its probably only the fact that we read the roads better than they do and stop most events from happening.