towing a 17.56-1 with a VE commodore SV6 Sportswagon?

[Chocka]

Hi Guys,

Our family just signed up for a 17.56-1 expanda and I have a few questions about towing it with a 2012 VE commodore SV6 stationwagon.

Is anyone else here towing a 17.56 with a VE commodore?

I currently have a 1600kg tow pack on the wagon, but I can upgrade it though holden dealership to become 2100kg.

Holden told me to upgrade from 1600 to 2100kg tow pack there are no structural changes to tow bar steel components, and I just have to buy the Holden "hitch".

Other options I'm thinking of are...

Hayman Reece WDH - not sure of advantages over Holden hitch

transmission cooler - $500 ( was told this is a good idea from a mate )

Air shockers to rear wheels - holden service guys said not required for VE

Camber adjustments? - not sure if required to save tyres?

I am concerned we will be over the required 2100kg ATM and as such I was wondering if anyone could estimate a 17.56-1 ATM with the following features - Jayco does not add it all up which surprises me.
(like a jelly bean in a jar comp – but with no prize!! L)

Hot water system
external shower
Solar pack with battery
150L fridge
White privacy screens
gas outlet at rear of van
Extra power point in dinette area
Extra external light above shower area
Alpine annexe with large side window, extra door at back with windows at both ends
Roof mounted aircon (now standard option)

Any advice is really appreciated - sorry about my spelling!

Dean.

 

[sven]

Hi Dean,

We picked up our brand new 17.56-1 OB on Friday 22nd of March with the exact same extras as you except for the brand of annex, didn't get the extra power point but with an extended drawbar. (I'm yet to do a new member's introduction, my bad).

On the VIN plate, the unloaded weight is 1900kg.

Using the specs off the Jayco website, the OB is 85kg heaver, so the unloaded weight of yours “could be” 1825kg.

Regards,
Steven

 

[Chocka]

Thanks for that info Steven - and "welcome" (I joined a few days ago! ha ha).

So, do you know what your ATM weight is? perhaps I could deduct 85Kg from that and it would be close to the mark.

Cheers.

 

[macca]

All the stuff you take away is soon going to add up. Its all the stuff you dont think about at the time that weighs more than you think. The hitch itself will be very heavy as an example.

 

[Lara]

I agree with Maccayak, when we packed our van from scratch I weighed everything and was surprised how quickly it all started to add up. We hit just under 210kgs, and that was without food, clothes, water etc.

And we had packed carefully to try and keep the weight down. But things like BBQ, annex, matting, table and bench seats are all quite heavy. Our tool bag alone weighed in at 15kg's! And don't forget the gas cylinders.
But like Macayak said, the little things will add up to more than you think. All the dinnerware and cups, utensils, cutlery, towels and bedding, wheel chocks and levelers, the list just goes on and on..........

Just be careful because without weighing it all you can quickly go over without realizing!

 

[Bushman]

By by V6 Commodore Wagon with 2100kg tow capacity you'll right on if not over loaded

your allowed 400kg load on dual axle van or 475kg load on a shower model.

thats on top of your plated tare (empty) van weight

 

[sven]

Hi Dean,

Tare - 1897kg
GTM - 2181kg (-85kg is 2096kg)
ATM - 2372kg

Other thing to consider is the ball weight for the commodore tow pack.
For our caravan, empty is 191kg with max at 237kg.

So you'll be able to tow the caravan but with nothing in it.

Regard,

Steven

 

[fishinglizard]

I towed my disco, wich has a max plated wieght of 2020 kegs (wich is plated empy wieght 1545 plus 475 kegs ), with a vy commodore, its 2003 with 220 thousand cliks on it, it went fine sitting on 90 ks, it was a dog going up hills, (hawkesbury river to sydney on f3) it just about cooked itself heat wise, I was going to put the biggest trany cooler and add fans or whatever to radiator, but I was able to by a mitsi challenger 2010 for cheaps off family, its rated at 2500 kegs, towed with it the other weekend, yeah commodore not designed to tow 2 ton. sorry. well my old one was not up to it, dont know about the new ones. That was fully loaded with 2 tanks of water.

 

[Chocka]

Update for anyone else interested in towing with a SV6 commodore - I towed our new 17ft expanda last weekend (ATM 2100KG exactly) and had no problems at all, even going up steep hills. Water tank was empty and we had a pretty light load, but I suspect even heavily loaded it would do the job. I sat on 100km/hr in hilly conditions, and even a steep section Kinglake national park was no probs at all. Even checked the sump temp in Engineering mode and it was 95 degs. - all fine. I will invest in a Transmission cooler though soon for the summer months. I used a Holden WDH, but it didn't seem to heavy on the tow ball either. We traveled in high winds and wet conditions, and I never felt unsafe at all. Must admit I was pleasantly surprised at how it all went.

 

[crackacoldie]

I would verify with a tow bar place about the structures of the tow bar. If your bar is stamped with 1600kgs, then you will need to upgrade the whole bar, not just the tongue, which I suspect will be the case, it was with my VT and VX commodores.

 

[Chocka]

Thanks for the thought Cracka. I did do my homework there - There is no difference bettween the VE 1600kg and 2100kg steel structure or tounge. In-fact the tounge has both ratings written on it. The only difference is the additional WDH.

 

[clemiere]

I'm so glad I have found someone with the same question,
We are looking at the same model van with a 2012 sv6 sports wagon with the 2.1 hitch

My question is how has the vehicle gone now?

 

[ash99]

I have a VF2 SSV sedan that I tow a Jayco 14.44-4 with.

Whilst it is a slightly different setup I can offer you this.

The standard holden WDH is hopeless. It is not height adjustable at all. I ended up with my van adopting a nose up attitude.

In the end I purchased a Hayman Reese WDH. These are height adjustable and the van tows much better. If you have the 1600kg hitch just buy the HR kit and you will be good to go.

What I will say about towing is that my van is 1850kg ATM. I have never put it on a weighbridge so cant confirm the actual weight.

Whilst the car tows this setup OK, I feel that the car is a little light compared to the van. The van definately nudges the car a little bit on bumpy roads. It is not out of control or anything silly, but you do know it is there.

 

[dagree]

There is no difference bettween the VE 1600kg and 2100kg steel structure or tounge. In-fact the tounge has both ratings written on it.

Yes they are the same towbar...... The difference is to do with the vehicle:

1600kgs = Manual
2100kgs = Auto

Towed our previous 16.49.3 tourer with a 2011 SS Sportswagon with and without HR WDH and definitely towed better with it.

 

[hademall]

Hi,
I’m new to the forum. I recently bought a VF Calais Sportswagon 2017. My main concern was it’s towing ability, although I only have a Coromal Silluette 391. Which weighs around 1450kgs with my stuff in it, which I used to tow with a Great Wall X200, a bit sluggish on hills but generally no problem! I did a lot of research into mid-sized SUV’s only to find that non of them met my criteria which ultimately led me to the VF. I have not towed the van yet, but have no doubts it will do the job.
Now to my point. During my research, I have read a lot of people’s comments regarding towing and how well or not their vehicle
handled the job, but the one thing that stood out to me was (and it makes sense) if you are towing, and the trailer is over the weight outlined by the vehicle manufacturer, and or the combined weight of the tow vehicle and trailer exceeds the Gross Vehicle and Trailer weight specified, in the event of an accident, be it someone else’s or your fault, you may not be paid out by your insurance company and you may also be charged by the police for the reckless use of a vehicle and the possibility of a charge for causing injury or death. Fair enough, I reckon. So take care.

 

[Bluey]

I tow my 1756=2 with my prado ok my vans an outback but the prado is ok but far from perfict and looks small in front of the van but wouldnt want anything smallar when we are loaded up for Christmas break 4 to 6 weeks away theres no way i would hook up to a commadoor i know our vans are diffrent but i fully agree with the privous post and feel if anything went pear shaped the van would do what it pleases with the wagon
Im not haveing a go at you but if your going to do a lot of towing id be looking at a heavier bigger car
Dose the van have ESC thats a must i reckon

 

[mikerezny]

We have a touring Penguin with a Tare of 964kg, ATM of 1264, and a towball weight when loaded of 127kg. Our tug is a Ford Falcon FG. Car is rated to tow 2,300kg but it is fitted with the standard towbar, so 1,600kg towing weight and 160kg towball max. So far so good.... Easy peasey one would think. Not actually so. With only two passengers we barely scrape in legally!!!!!!

Been over the free towbridge twice now. Last time was fully loaded for a one month trip: full fuel, gas, water, clothes, food. Here are the results:

Car:
Front axle: 960kg actual, 1,165kg max
Rear axle: 1220kg actual, 1,330kg max
Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM): 1,220 + 960kg = 2180kg actual, 2,210kg max (ONLY 30kg below max, and that is with only TWO passengers).

Van:
axle: 1,100kg actual,
towball: 127kg
Total weight: 1,227kg actual, 1264kg max (ATM). (only 37kg below max).

This is only with a relatively light touring Penguin. No chance of towing an Outback version. Or taking and other passengers.

I would strongly suggest that anyone using a normal passenger car to carry a family and tow a bigger van should go through all the details to ensure thay are within the legal limits.

Perhaps I am too pedantic, but I think there are three main issues:

1: safety. The limits have been set by engineers with more knowledge of what is acceptable than I do. I wouldn't like to be a passenger in a plane where the pilots loaded the plane purely on how they felt about it. (Seems to tow well!!!). I am responsible for the safety of my passengers AND other people on the road who are entitled to assume I am loading and driving my van so there safety is not at risk.

2: insurance: I fork out over $1,000 a year and in the event of an accident I don't want a claim to be rejected. Yes, I can afford to replace my car and van ($40k total) but I have no idea of the other third party costs that I would also be responsible for. I will keep putting my setup regularly over the free weighbridges to check that I am legal, but also to keep a written log of the weights in the event I have an accident and the loadings at the time are challenged.

3: legalities. Police are now not turning a blind eye to the loadings of cars towing caravans. They are now moving quickly to ensuring that RVs are treated identically to all the other load bearing transport on the road. i.e. RV drivers WILL be required to understand the various weight limits of axles, towbars, towball loadings, etc, etc. and the driver WILL be responsible for ensuring the car and van are within the legal loading limits. It will be no use whinging that the various dealers said it would be ok or that they were unaware that they had whacked 1,000kg of holiday gear in the van only rated to have 300kg!

We are booked to take our car and van to the Melbourne Leisurefest - Caravan Safety Inspection Program in October where I will get a chance to double check that my estimates are correct.

Once again, many thanks to all those on this forum who over the past 18 months have helped me to understand the complexities and responsibilities of safely towing a van.

cheers
Mike

 

[Craig1612]

Here are the weights on my van, 17.56.1 tourer, obviously the total don’t apply to you, the first one is my van loaded with the usuals that stay in, bbq annex walls plates cutlery ect,
The second is loaded food clothes and full water tank, I’m thinking you will be over on your weight bud,

 

[Craig1612]

Also I have not got hot water or outside shower,

 

[hademall]

Well said!