Electrical Setec cover removal.

[turbopsi]

Hi all,

Feeling a bit silly asking this question but I've removed the centre screw under the fuse panel and cannot seem to remove this cover. I've looked up a few photos and can see there are a few tab locations for the panel but I've had no luck so far. Haven't resorted to squeezing in screw drivers as I don't want to scratch the laminate.

2011 16:49 expanda with the unit under under lounge.

Any tips to get the panel off?

Cheers.

 

[turbopsi]

All good. Got there eventually by sliding a thin metal ruler through the top where the mounting tabs are. I put some painters tape/masking tape behind the ruler to avoid any scratching.

 

[Drover]

Not a stupid question, if I recall correctly only one screw in the middle, the panel will come of with careful prising around the edges, if worried about marking use a plastic ruler behind a flat blade... you will find 4 screws underneath which will allow the unit to be removed.

 

[turbopsi]

Not a stupid question, if I recall correctly only one screw in the middle, the panel will come of with careful prising around the edges, if worried about marking use a plastic ruler behind a flat blade... you will find 4 screws underneath which will allow the unit to be removed.

Thanks Driver, no amount of careful prying worked without assistance. As per above I used a metal ruler with some painters tape behind it to prevent any scratches. Next step is get get my head I to connecting a battery box, external cig/USB sockets for fridge etc and solar. The battery box has a couple of Anderson connectors on it so that should make solar easy. Think I've worked most of it out, just have to figure out the correct size cable and what to use for an isolator switch. Plan A is to keep everything removable so I'll see if I can come up with a way to keep the isolator switch with the battery box. Cheers.

 

[Drover]

Just a normal light switch will work as an isolator for the battery to setek line and while you have the setek out check the spade connectors are crimped okay, my old rigs needed a few replaced as they fell off.

 

[turbopsi]

Thx. Yeah I knew it looks like a normal architrave 240v house switch but heaps of comments on here about it needing to be a DC switch rated over 20A? Hence being on the hunt for one.

 

[Drover]

Never had a drama using them on other 12v vehicles unless your going to be drawing over 10 amps all the time , of course if your running a high amp 110DC voltage tool certainly a DC switch is needed as an AC switch will arc , just go to an auto shop and buy a simple toggle/button switch for spotties then it doesn't have to be caravan related. Jaycar has nice ones rated at 20a and above .

 

[turbopsi]

Never had a drama using them on other 12v vehicles unless your going to be drawing over 10 amps all the time , of course if your running a high amp 110DC voltage tool certainly a DC switch is needed as an AC switch will arc , just go to an auto shop and buy a simple toggle/button switch for spotties then it doesn't have to be caravan related. Jaycar has nice ones rated at 20a and above .

Thx, I saw a 20A and 30A rated narva switch at Repco I might go with. Can I pick your brain about cable size? Just realised 6mm cable could mean a few things (6mm auto? 6mm B&S? then there's 8B&S?. Can you point me in the right direction for the correct cable size for the following.

1. Battery to Setec. Length = 2.5M
2. Battery to Anderson on drawbar. Length = 4.5M. Will be used for charging while driving and for portable solar panels.
3. 12v extenal socket for 12V fridge and USB charging. Distance will be from Setec under dinette to near the standard 240V outlet on awning side. Not sire If I can mount the cable and plug underneath the van or route the cable through internal cabinets and drill a hole though the external wall panel which would look factory but I'm not keen on doing.

Cheers.

 

[Drover]

If the switch can be knocked get a toggle that has a cover over it, missile switch cover saves accidental power off.............

I would drop the cig socket for the fridge and fit an anderson it could be just under the van, better for fridge, I cut off the cig socket on my fridge and fitted an Anderson, the cut off cig plug I attached an anderson to it so I had a jumper if needed..............though I do have an external cig socket on van which I plug a USB dongle into for phone charging.
I have always been thinking of fitting a small hatch on outside with 12v power/USB/TV connections inside instead of crappy fittings hanging on external wall, a cupboard on inside would allow cable run.

As for cable size, I will probably be jumped on but this is what I use mostly......
1. 6 B&S is ideal but I have used 8 B&S.

2. 6 B&S

3. 8 B&S

4. General low power runs 10 B&S.......

5, I like using Maxi fuse holders,

 

[mikerezny]

Hi,
if it was me, I would not run an inverter through the battery switch and certainly not through the fuse panel on the Setec.

A small 300W inverter running at full load will draw more 25A from the 12V supply. A 2,000W inverter running at full power will draw over 170A.
Voltage drop on the 12V connecting cables is a concern so they usually need to be as thick and as short as possible. Meaning the inverter is usually mounted as close as practicable to the battery.

Most inverters have their own switch to disconnect from the 12V supply and some have a remote control.

take care
Mike

 

[turbopsi]

Hi,
if it was me, I would not run an inverter through the battery switch and certainly not through the fuse panel on the Setec.

A small 300W inverter running at full load will draw more 25A from the 12V supply. A 2,000W inverter running at full power will draw over 170A.
Voltage drop on the 12V connecting cables is a concern so they usually need to be as thick and as short as possible. Meaning the inverter is usually mounted as close as practicable to the battery.

Most inverters have their own switch to disconnect from the 12V supply and some have a remote control.

take care
Mike

Hi Mike

That's opened up a scenario I hadn't thought about yet. I thought I was going to start off with the basics but you have raised a massively valid point though that I think I need to get my head into.

Switch wise I was looking at the Narva Master Battery switch which are rated at 300AMP. By the sounds of it the switch will be fine but the cabling is another story. 6B&S would be only good for around 100AMP? and 8B&S even less. How does everyone get around these limitations? Or should I say, what would be the recommended way to put in place provisions to safely run an inverter? I'm pretty sure the one I have is either 300w or 600w? I'll have to double check.

Cheers.

 

[turbopsi]

Hey Mike, just had a look at the manual for redarc inverter models and the specified wire table recommends some pretty fat cabling !!! Thanks for the heads up.

https://www.redarc.com.au/Content/I...es Pure Sine Inverters Instruction Manual.pdf

 

[mikerezny]

Hey Mike, just had a look at the manual for redarc inverter models and the specified wire table recommends some pretty fat cabling !!! Thanks for the heads up.

https://www.redarc.com.au/Content/Images/uploaded/Manuals/RS Series Pure Sine Inverters Instruction Manual.pdf

The other thing to consider is how to terminate the cable to the lugs. For normal old 12V things drawing a few amps or so, it is not so important.
But for larger currents, you cannot cut any corners. Lugs must be terminated correctly. The correct terminal for the wire size and the correct crimping tool must be used. The currents involved for larger inverters are around the same current as used for arc welding and a battery is capable of delivering 1,000W. More than enough to cause a fire in a poorly crimped or loose terminal feeding an inverter.

I won't get into the debate about soldering or crimping. Everyone has their preferred method. I am old school and prefer soldering, but I have started crimping of late and have not had any problems. So, I am probably happy either way.

Again, if it was me, I would probably wire the inverter directly to the battery. Less bits and pieces in that heavy cable run, the less to go wrong.
But a hefty isolation switch to quickly disconnect the 12V supply certainly has its advantages.

take care
Mike

 

[Drover]

So you are looking at fitting an Inverter ????? @turbopsi

As Mike has pointed out that does require a certain way of connecting, my 400w Belkin inverter for my laptop has a 35 amp fuse but it is not hard wired into the system, if you wanted to fit one for more power and longer running time I would be upping my storage and panels... .......a 300amp battery switch and cabling to handle 100 or more would be overkill, that sort of current the Setek would have a meltdown for sure, the cabling in my 14.44 from the battery was only about 45 amp stuff and connected to the Setek with a spade connector.

What would you want to power with an Inverter they do chew a bit of power....

 

[turbopsi]

So you are looking at fitting an Inverter ????? @turbopsi

As Mike has pointed out that does require a certain way of connecting, my 400w Belkin inverter for my laptop has a 35 amp fuse but it is not hard wired into the system, if you wanted to fit one for more power and longer running time I would be upping my storage and panels... .......a 300amp battery switch and cabling to handle 100 or more would be overkill, that sort of current the Setek would have a meltdown for sure, the cabling in my 14.44 from the battery was only about 45 amp stuff and connected to the Setek with a spade connector.

What would you want to power with an Inverter they do chew a bit of power....

Giving the inverter a miss. It was never part of the plan to have one. Speaking about spade terminals. Would a spade connector fit onto 6B&S cable? And would that spade connector fit into the setec?

Lastly what fuse rating should I be using on the battery side and setek unit side.

Looking to buy a a pre-made lead and the kit with the 6b&s cable comes with an inline 50amp fuse close to the battery.

 

[turbopsi]

I've just been told by a supplier that I'm not going to find a QC spade female terminal to fit either 6B&S or 8B&S cable. How have you guys terminated the 6B&S or 8B&S cable into the setek unit? Thx.

**EDIT** Just came across these that should be ok? https://www.narva.com.au/products/56045BL

Scratch that, I just found these which now suggest it wont. https://www.noldtrading.com.au/hella-pc-fully-insulated-female-blade-terminals-ye-10216855.html

I think I'll wait on some guidance from you guys. Cheers.

 

[mikerezny]

Hi,
I might have missed something.

I don't understand why you need to terminate 6B&S cable onto a standard-sized QC terminal to plug into the Setec.
The battery fuse for the Setec is 20A. The maximum charge from a ST20 is 10A and for a ST35 is 15A.
Typically, the Setec is mounted close to the battery and the cable run between them would be less than 1m (2m return).

The ST20 can supply a maximum of 20A to 12V loads, the ST35, a maximum of 35A.
But that current is spread across a number of load fuses, typically 7.5 or 10A) that feed separate circuits.

I used a voltage drop calculator:
https://www.calculator.net/voltage-...ce=1&distanceunit=meters&amperes=25&x=46&y=24

Based on a 1m (2m return) run of 8AWG (8mm2 copper area) at 20A, the voltage drop would be 0.082V.

Now, according to my sources, 8AWG is rated up to 56A, has a conductor diameter of of 3.2mm and total diameter of typically 6.5mm.
Yellow gauge standard quick connect terminals have an cable entry size of 6.6mm and a wire entry size of between 4-6mm.

The QC terminals that go onto the lugs in the Setec must be fully shrouded. The lugs are very close to the metal cover and the QC terminals can easily come into contact with this case. Certainly not a good thing.

take care
Mike

 

[turbopsi]

Thanks Mike,

With the cable size, I was just going on advice posted here. I guess that's now two thumbs up for the 8B&S so I'll run with that and I know that will fit in the QC terminals.

I got the crayons out and put together a rough drawing of what I'm trying to achieve but would appreciate if you could skim over it and let me know if it checks out. The battery box is a portable one with Anderson plugs pre fitted so I can take it out and use it elsewhere. I can also get the box fitted with 8mm screw posts if you think that would be the better option to connect it to the setek.

Portable box to go underneath lounge - http://www.home12volt.com.au/bbox---std-model.html

My fold out solar panels have there own regulators.

Insulated QC terminals https://www.narva.com.au/products/56045BL

Am I on the right track?

Cheers

 

[Drover]

I wouldn't really bother with 6 B&S cable for the battery to Setek line, massive overkill as the Setek is never ever going to draw that sort of juice, I think in my 14.44 and in fact even in Big Mal the cable running for the van supply would is not more than 10 B&S, the lines to the Buss barrs are 8 B&S also my 14.44 the run from battery to Setek was at least 5mts f 10 B&S. Your solar Is direct to battery and draw from battery isnt really much, so 8 B&S would be more than enough..... B&S and AWG are same, same.....

 

[turbopsi]

Thx Drover. Your original advice was to use 6B&S between battery and setek which is why I ran with that size? Anyway I've downgraded to 8B&S now which now sounds like it's still probably overkill. Not sure if you had a look at the drawing I attached but the external Anderson running 6B&S to the drawbar is not only for solar panels but to connect to the vehicles alternator and charge while driving. I've referred to a few online resources including the first reply from yourself and all advise it's best to run the 6B&S to minimise voltage drop between vehicle and caravan batteries. One more thing. I've got a 7 pin flat plug connecting the van to the vehicle at the moment. I can see the setec has an aux+ in (thin cable) and I can turn on caravan lights when towing. Is this standard setup going to charge the battery at all through the setek while driving or should I continue down the path of getting an Anderson plug fitted on both our tow vehicle and the caravan? I thought it was going to be quite easy as there would be a common way of doing things but by the looks of things I can't get a definitive spec on what cabling to use and I've been stuck on this detail for days now...