looking at a new van Journey 21.66-3 OB VS Silverline 21.65-3 OB

[Mick]

I have optioned these both up to what I would like for free camping options,and now need opinions from hopefully some that have experienced these things.
the journey has 160watt solar and 100 AGM battery up to another 160watt and second battery.
asked if this could be up dated to lithium I was told yes only up to a 100AH lithium.

The Silver line comes lithium ready same solar but also and can upgrade to second lithium battery.
16watt X 2
100AH X 2 lithium

I would like to update the fridge to the new compressor type and as this only runs on battery how long would it last.
As I found out the new battery management system is a Projector PM235J
that is PWM so really good in Queensland and NT
I asked if they would upgrade to Projector PM300J that is MPPT good for Melbourne
they answered just buy the van and after market upgrade it , if I have to do this I may as well look at different brand of van
please any thoughts

 

[mfexpanda]

we have an older silverline . we have 2 x 120amp agm batteries it would be to much of a hassle to change things to run lithium for us.
if you are going comp fridge i would go the 2 x 100 lithium and as many solar panels as you can.
we have 560W of solar

 

[Drover]

How much to upgrade should be your first question really as sometimes its cheaper to DiY and you get better gear ............ Its a shame they only offer a PWM, the Projecta I don't really know much about other than their brochure, some PWM units will operate as good as a lot of MPPT units, I would go extra panels as if you are going to do mainly off grid you will find you will want at least 400w on the roof and a good 200ah of storage minimum, the more the better because then you dont have to worryabout turning on anything........... Contray to all the blurb an MPPT really comes to the fore in the early morning and late arvo, if you really need their higher charging rates then its more than likely your storage is lacking and need to add more battery or cut back on usage...........

If you go a compressor fridge you really want 200ah for it then add some more for your other stuff, my WA mate started with 120ah in his then new New Age, we added another 120ah and a panel, think he has 400w on roof and a portable, then he added another 120ah, he reckons his fridge runs well and he doesn't worry about power, he off grids most of the time, has the Inverter Coffee thing as well, (makes crap coffee). He does say if you have a compressor fridge a Genny in the tool box is handy just in case, cloudy days or the BM Pro/Projecta craps out.....

 

[Mick]

Thanks guys
for the info I did ask how many panels the roof would hold and jayco only offered 2 X 160Watt with the 2 X 100AH lithium batteries.
this is ok .
And as i mentioned in the original post about changing it after market then this would muck with the vans weights and we know what can of worms that opens.

 

[Brente1982]

You should be able to easily fit 4 panels on the roof. I have 4x 175w panels waiting to go on my new van when it gets delivered. I will be replacing the 1x 160w factory panel.
As for the PWM vs MPPT debate. The projecta pm235 unit with its 800w capable PWM will operate just as well as any MPPT. Where an MPPT has an advantage is when the panels voltage is in excess of 19volts. For most people, the PWM will be more than enough.

 

[Drover]

jayco only offered 2 X 160Watt with the 2 X 100AH lithium batteries.

If they will give you 2 lithium I would go for them add another later if you like, weight wise you would still be ahead over an AGM, 220w on roof wouldn't be that difficult to plug another in later or set yourself up a portable to add to it, a 120w portable can actually provide more power during the day than 250w on the roof and are very handy................. The lithium will give more usable power than AGMs but you would probably need more panels to bring them up to charge quickly, It really boils downto if you are willing to shell out big dollars for another lithuim if you need it...

I find I can get my batteries back to 100% by 0900 so that by 1100 I can plug our phones, kindle in and fire up invertor to charge the laptop and its actually the panels charging them up and no drain on batteries at all.......... I have 440w on roof and 120w on the ground with 210ah of AGM's, remember the quoted ratings of panels and batteries is just theory, if you deduct 30% you are closer to what you can really expect ......... like the quoted HP of a vehicle it tends to drop outside the lab...........

 

[Brente1982]

Absolutely, there is no point having mass amounts of usable battery capacity, if you simply don't have a way to recharge that power. My rule of thumb has always been to have a 2:1 ratio of solar wattage to battery capacity

 

[Boots in Action]

You should be able to easily fit 4 panels on the roof. I have 4x 175w panels waiting to go on my new van when it gets delivered. I will be replacing the 1x 160w factory panel.
As for the PWM vs MPPT debate. The projecta pm235 unit with its 800w capable PWM will operate just as well as any MPPT. Where an MPPT has an advantage is when the panels voltage is in excess of 19volts. For most people, the PWM will be more than enough.

All the more reason to connect panels in SERIES and really get the best out of what a MPPT controller can deliver under ALL conditions @Brente1982 . I have seen some setups where multiple panels on van roof have been connected with waterproof MC4 connectors to increase voltage to MPPT controller. I think @Crusty181 has his multiple roof top panels configured in SERIES. Why buy a MPPT controller when a PWM controller is reasonably efficient (under ideal conditions only) when utilizing multiple panels in PARALLEL? Even though my panels are all portable, I still have them connected in SERIES and reap the benefits of approx 55.0 volts and not just 17.0 to 18.0 volts into MPPT controller when charging batteries. You cannot beat the efficiency of a proper MPPT controller to keep your battery/ies fully charged.

 

[Mick]

Thanks all for the information I did forget to mention that we need the extra power as we are putting one of those wall mounted washing machine and inverter to use when free camping / off grid.
also the compressor fridge.
I can plug the solar 200watt solar panel from off the tug as a portable.

 

[Brente1982]

Thanks all for the information I did forget to mention that we need the extra power as we are putting one of those wall mounted washing machine and inverter to use when free camping / off grid.
also the compressor fridge.
I can plug the solar 200watt solar panel from off the tug as a portable.

As long as it has a regulator on it, yes you can.
Water will be your biggest limiter with the washine machine.
If it's the 216L compressor fridge, it will use around 65-70ah a day

 

[Brente1982]

All the more reason to connect panels in SERIES and really get the best out of what a MPPT controller can deliver under ALL conditions @Brente1982 . I have seen some setups where multiple panels on van roof have been connected with waterproof MC4 connectors to increase voltage to MPPT controller. I think @Crusty181 has his multiple roof top panels configured in SERIES. Why buy a MPPT controller when a PWM controller is reasonably efficient (under ideal conditions only) when utilizing multiple panels in PARALLEL? Even though my panels are all portable, I still have them connected in SERIES and reap the benefits of approx 55.0 volts and not just 17.0 to 18.0 volts into MPPT controller when charging batteries. You cannot beat the efficiency of a proper MPPT controller to keep your battery/ies fully charged.

No, no you can't. Victron mppt's for me.

 

[Crusty181]

Thanks all for the information I did forget to mention that we need the extra power as we are putting one of those wall mounted washing machine and inverter to use when free camping / off grid.
also the compressor fridge.
I can plug the solar 200watt solar panel from off the tug as a portable.

If you use wool wash its ph neutral and you can avoid rinsing. Our wash only cycle uses 20ltrs, but the full cycle uses 80ltrs or a full tank. Our w/machine pulls around 24amps thru the inverter. Just the wash cycle (no rinsing) is 12min so around only 6amps per wash thru an inverter. No biggy on the batteries, and in good solar conditions i have back in 10 minutes. I turn the water pump off and bucket any non potable water like river water into the machine, saving my potable water, but never rinse

 

[Brente1982]

Not sure that approach will work with a front loader though @Crusty181

 

[Drover]

Right compressor fridge ........ I would have 200amp allotted for it and another 100 for the other stuff, while not having one myself it does seem to be the base line for others I meet for off grid happiness................

These links cover the solar possibilities,the benefit of parrellel or series as they both have pros and cons in regard to off grid....

Series vs. Parallel

Learn about series, parallel, and series-parallel connections in solar panel systems. Understand why each connection type is used and how to set up your system accordingly. Discover the benefits and considerations of each connection type based on your specific situation.

www.renogy.com

Covering the BS from labels and salesmen; https://www.gorv.com.au/10-rv-solar-myths/

and filling the gaps left out by the previous.......... https://12voltblog.com.au/a-guide-to-using-solar-panels-and-regulators/

I have a top load washing machine and use a bucket to load it from clean river or water jerries save the pump banging away but I use a genny to run it while charging everything else as well but I fear as mentioned a front loader won't take the bucket loading technique.....

When you do the handover run the washer to make sure they have connected the hoses up properly, its not uncommon for your floor to get washed, so better to check everything at the dealers before you leave, if somethiing doesn't work Do not take the van leave it with them or you will have to wait months to get it serviced usually...

 

[Brente1982]

He is installing a wall mounted washing machine, ie. a front loader. So river water wont work I wouldn't think as you cant simple fill a front loader like a top loader.

 

[Drover]

Thats what you pointed out earlier @Brente1982 , a brilliant observation I thought... Mate hates his front loader, wanted me to swap...fat chance I told him...

 

[Brente1982]

Haha ok fair enough. I think some can be poorly mounted and this shake the living hell out of the van. And then there's plenty that are fine. I know a couple of people in both categories

 

[Crusty181]

Not sure that approach will work with a front loader though @Crusty181

Even with a front loader you can water in them, most of the water is below the door. If your off grid choices are limited, its either that or nothing or a bucket wash I suppose

 

[Brente1982]

Even with a front loader you can water in them, most of the water is below the door. If your off grid choices are limited, its either that or nothing or a bucket wash I suppose

Nah just pack more clothes

 

[Crusty181]

Nah just pack more clothes

or do what we use to do, all stink up in equal amounts and just deal it with when we got home