Electrical How did I not know about this?

[1DayIll]

I had no idea that Bunnings sold these and only for $50. Did they just suddenly get them or have I been blind and just missed out.

Went and got one last night and it seems like a solid unit with 14 months warranty. Now i can plug in my van at home safely.

Ampsafe Caravan To Home Electrical Adapter

Find Ampsafe Caravan To Home Electrical Adapter at Bunnings. Visit your local store for the widest range of products.

www.bunnings.com.au

I better go and plug it in now!

 

[Drover]

Thats a more reasonable price for these things, they are needed as so many stupid people just plug everything in and turn it on nowadays.............

. Seems a lot of folk get them as they believe they convert 10amp power to 15 amp power so you can turn your toaster, kettle, HWS and AC at the same time, very handy .............. .................. Since I just run my fridge I will buy a carton of beer instead.....

 

[rags]

Must say I scratch my head around the 15 amp issue when I consider my vans power needs.1 fridge that predominantly runs on 12 volt at home, powered by the sun, 1 Enerdrive 40amp AC charger that doesn’t get used because the sun powered dc charger is doing its thing and folks that’s it. So yes I have 10 amp plug on my 15 amp lead and wait for it, I plug it into the 15 amp power point in my shed that is my dedicated power outlet for the welder.

Still don’t understand why I need 15 amp to the van.

 

[BJM]

Some caravan parks saying you have to have 15 amp lead as if its law,it aint law.The mate I sometimes travel is a mine sparky and says many cp power boxes do not meet the revelant Aust std.!

 

[Drover]

Still don’t understand why I need 15 amp to the van.

a 15amp outlet on a house/pole/shed is more than likely to have no other or very few other sockets running off the circuit, if it has more than 2 the gauge of cable is supposed to be higher than the general run of the mill house circuit..............more often a dedicated circuit.
A caravan plugged into a household 10amp point could be the same one that has the toaster, jug, frying pan hanging off it or even an iron or heater, if multiple of these are plugged in and the van fires up the jug, pop goes the breaker in house box or in older houses or those old ones in Canberra, the wire melts hopefully in the fuse before the power box ignites..............

A caravan park should have only a certain number of outlets per circuit, each with higher cabling and a breaker on each outlet as well as a secondary breaker on the main board.............. showgrounds have always had power problems because often 10 amp and too many outlets used at one time....

A 15 amp lead from van to a 15 amp outlet means if you plug the toaster and kettle in together 3 things should be prevented from happening, the house fuse box shouldn't burst into flames the van breaker should not smoke and the van lead should not melt.

My welder is 10 amp go figure, my old one you could see the power poles leaning over................................


It should be noted its not illegal to change a 15amp plug to a 10amp its illegal for non sparkies to change any plug on any lead, technically a sparky should repair a broken plug and a light bulb.......................

 

[rags]

a 15amp outlet on a house/pole/shed is more than likely to have no other or very few other sockets running off the circuit, if it has more than 2 the gauge of cable is supposed to be higher than the general run of the mill house circuit..............more often a dedicated circuit.
A caravan plugged into a household 10amp point could be the same one that has the toaster, jug, frying pan hanging off it or even an iron or heater, if multiple of these are plugged in and the van fires up the jug, pop goes the breaker in house box or in older houses or those old ones in Canberra, the wire melts hopefully in the fuse before the power box ignites..............

A caravan park should have only a certain number of outlets per circuit, each with higher cabling and a breaker on each outlet as well as a secondary breaker on the main board.............. showgrounds have always had power problems because often 10 amp and too many outlets used at one time....

A 15 amp lead from van to a 15 amp outlet means if you plug the toaster and kettle in together 3 things should be prevented from happening, the house fuse box shouldn't burst into flames the van breaker should not smoke and the van lead should not melt.

My welder is 10 amp go figure, my old one you could see the power poles leaning over................................


It should be noted its not illegal to change a 15amp plug to a 10amp its illegal for non sparkies to change any plug on any lead, technically a sparky should repair a broken plug and a light bulb.......................

But I can have a circuit with circuit breaker in the house running fridge, microwave, 4 power points that can power the rooster, kettle, air fryer etc while the washing machine and dryer are running on the other side of the wall,plus the Dylsun vacuum cleaner charging, but I can’t plug the caravan with a fridge and not much else into the power circuit that runs the clock radio, tv , and Iphone charger. Go figure.
Good thing the 15 amp welder point is on the same circuit as the 2 x 3 phase hanging machine power points.
But it is a bugger when you run the 20 metre lead out side so I can weld out in the open, it does get hot.

 

[Boots in Action]

But I can have a circuit with circuit breaker in the house running fridge, microwave, 4 power points that can power the rooster, kettle, air fryer etc while the washing machine and dryer are running on the other side of the wall,plus the Dylsun vacuum cleaner charging, but I can’t plug the caravan with a fridge and not much else into the power circuit that runs the clock radio, tv , and Iphone charger. Go figure.
Good thing the 15 amp welder point is on the same circuit as the 2 x 3 phase hanging machine power points.
But it is a bugger when you run the 20 metre lead out side so I can weld out in the open, it does get hot.

@rags, it is my understanding that ALL household circuits are rated to 15 amps only (3600 watts). If you exceed that amperage on any circuit, it should trip the circuit breaker for that particular circuit. So you can have 4, 5 or 6 circuits all drawing the max of 15 amps EACH without any problems AS LONG AS THE MAIN FUSE IN THE POWER BOX CAN HANDLE THAT TOTAL LOAD. If it can, all is fine if designed that way, but then you still have the HOUSE FUSE on the input to the house. There is porcelain fire proof box containing a ceramic fuse capable of handling the total house demands it was designed to protect (80 to 100A?) . If you have 3 phase power, each phase is similarly protected at the home power box, while the house fuse is also similarly protected for EACH phase.

So you must have a lot of your appliances on different phases, hence being able to operate so many high power devices at the same time. Otherwise the circuit breaker should trip and prevent the wiring from getting hot , melting and catching fire. The advantage of 3 phase power that most domestic properties do not normally have. If you are going to run several air-conditioners, heaters or do a lot of continuous welding at the same time, you must have 3 phase power. Your hot water service is always on its own dedicated circuit and may have a 20A fuse while the cook top/and or electric oven have their own dedicated circuit protected by a 40 or 50 amp circuit breaker/fuse.

 

[Drover]

But I can have a circuit with circuit breaker in the house running fridge, microwave, 4 power points that can power the rooster, kettle, air fryer etc while the washing machine and dryer are running on the other side of the wall,plus the Dylsun vacuum cleaner charging, but I can’t plug the caravan with a fridge and not much else into the power circuit that runs the clock radio, tv , and Iphone charger. Go figure.
Good thing the 15 amp welder point is on the same circuit as the 2 x 3 phase hanging machine power points.
But it is a bugger when you run the 20 metre lead out side so I can weld out in the open, it does get hot.

I do believe the scientific formula is ,they don't expect all to be running at the same time but there is a limit to how many on one circuit, just can't remember now..........
Plugging in the van the weak point is always the lead and with these new sealed plugs the connection to the pins isn't all that heavy duty going by some of the melt downs I have seen, the crimped bit seems a bit light and quality of some can be dubious.....

My old neighbour supplied me with about 40 mts of super heavy weight cable from the mines, i made up a big extension lead for my welder, it didn't get warm and the welder didn't loose any oomph, ended up using it along with some extra to wire up old shed to save money.....

My Dad taught me all about fuses back when a toaster and kettle in a very old house would blow them..........

 

[Boots in Action]

I do believe the scientific formula is ,they don't expect all to be running at the same time but there is a limit to how many on one circuit, just can't remember now..........
Plugging in the van the weak point is always the lead and with these new sealed plugs the connection to the pins isn't all that heavy duty going by some of the melt downs I have seen, the crimped bit seems a bit light and quality of some can be dubious.....

My old neighbour supplied me with about 40 mts of super heavy weight cable from the mines, i made up a big extension lead for my welder, it didn't get warm and the welder didn't loose any oomph, ended up using it along with some extra to wire up old shed to save money.....

My Dad taught me all about fuses back when a toaster and kettle in a very old house would blow them..........

It used to be only 7 outlets per circuit @Drover and a double GPO counted as two. Then came power boards with multiple outlets and that stuffed up the count!! People used to connect up a couple of heaters etc through the power board. The result was burnt out boards! So then they added overload switches set at max 10A, so that if the total load on the board exceeded 10A, it tripped out and power had to be reduced before it would re-set. That still does not affect the fact that the total load on any domestic circuit is still limited to 15A, regardless of how many power boards on on that line.

 

[mikerezny]

Hi,
A typical household GPO circuit will have a 20A fuse or circuit breaker and will be fed to something like 7 or 8 power points.
Our switchboard has three circuit breakers, each rated at 20A. So, a maximum of 60A, which is four times the capacity of a single 15A circuit.

Further, the power points in our kitchen area are fed from two of these circuits. So, the kitchen appliances "could" draw a maximum of 40A before tripping either of the circuit breakers. This is almost three times the capacity of a 15A circuit.

Reasonably sized air conditioners in a house typically need a 15A supply and will be wired on a separate circuit back to the switchboard. In a caravan, this power typically has to come from the one 15A supply. Room heaters typically draw 2,000 to 2,400W. So, with the Aircon or heater fully on, the circuit is already using 10A of the circuit capacity of 15A. I have no idea what a van H/W system uses, but my guess would be that it would be classed as a major appliance.

So, using an aircon or room heater in a van with any one major appliance such as a , kettle, toaster, microwave, electric stove element, H/W system would draw up to if not more than 15A.

It is not uncommon on other forums to read of people whinging about the power going off all the time when the only thing they are using is the aircon and tv, until someone suggests checking if they have their H/W system turned on. Every time the thermostat on the H/W kicks in, the circuit is overloaded, tripping the circuit breaker in the van or supply pole, and off go the lights, tv, and aircon.

Note that household electric stoves and electric H/W systems will each be supplied directly from the switchboard by dedicated circuit breakers.

This is why. the luxury vans have at least 2, if not 3 15 inlets, one or two of which will power one or sometimes two air conditioners.

I come from a professional sound and lighting background. First check whenever I entered a venue was to find the power outlets, then the switchboard, then identify two separate feeds to the stage, one for the PA, and another for the lights.
Lights would easily be capable of drawing more than the max so it was not uncommon to trip that circuit if you got carried away and put the faders up on more lights than the circuit could handle. Later on, we upgraded to 35A three phase for lights, so we could use 24,000W of lighting, if we had the luxury of a three phase outlet. If not out came the adapter from three phase to three 10A plugs. Then the hunt was on for four separate feeds to the stage, three for lighting and one for the PA.

Similar story later in life when I was technical supervisor on Outside Broadcast vans in the television industry. It was certainly a career limiting mistake to loose power when your van is going live throught Australia or sometimes global, as in Brisbane during Expo 88. On very important events, we even brought along a generator trailer, which would be kept running if we lost the mains.

take care
Mike

 

[Drover]

I bet you saw some doosey set ups inside some power boxes @mikerezny ???? Have seen some showground set ups where its scary just lookinginside hwen you open the door....

 

[mikerezny]

Hi,
Maryborough in Qld got a bright new shiny showground around the late 70's. First night of the show. Big wigs everywhere. Power went off and smoke everywhere around the power pole supplying the entire show ground. Event cancelled, police, fire trucks everywhere.

Turned out that they had to run the 4 huge wires (three phase plus neutral) down the power pole to the distribution panel. Naturally, these cables had to be protected, so the instructions were to put them in a steel tube. Easy peasy. Simple job, give it to the apprentice. He couldn't source a steel tube large enough so he put two wires in one tube and the other two in another tube. No-one picked up on this.

But in effect, he had created a transformer with each tube. Magnetic field from the unbalanced current feeding one huge short circuit turn created by the tube. Night time arrived, all the lights went on, all the rides started, the tubes got red hot, burnt the conductors, and, from memory the pole went up in flames, and darkness descended.

If you look at cables running down power poles, they are usually protected with U channel, thus avoiding any chance of a short circuit turn.

Interesting that old lessons were forgotten. PVC conduit in houses for years and everyone forgot why the metal conduit used for containing wiring was always split to avoid any chance of it becoming a short circuit turn if the current running through the conduit become unbalanced.
The small local electrical firm copped a hiding which was not fair. I knew most of them and they were the most experienced team in the area. They did most of the complicated industrial jobs. It was a very simple mistake, but with disastrous consequences.

take care
Mike

 

[Drover]

Its magic stuff the green steam, we once had to move a fence surrounding a small sub station, seems the fence was original but as they expanded things inside they never expanded the fence until someone got a zap, my job was doing the silver solder joins on the copper earth straps that went underground and earthed the new fence.......... a bit scary when it rained though before we finished.

My pet hate is when I see power cables coiled up, they know not what they do.................................. mine is always flaked out under the van so its not bundled up.

 

[Drover]

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE:........... you have a choice, for limited time of course. @1DayIll ignore the date Victoria it might be weeks.

 

[mikerezny]

Its magic stuff the green steam, we once had to move a fence surrounding a small sub station, seems the fence was original but as they expanded things inside they never expanded the fence until someone got a zap, my job was doing the silver solder joins on the copper earth straps that went underground and earthed the new fence.......... a bit scary when it rained though before we finished.

My pet hate is when I see power cables coiled up, they know not what they do.................................. mine is always flaked out under the van so its not bundled up.

Hi,

or someone who has a long 15A extension lead coiled up on a hose reel, winding out exactly what is needed to reach the power pole, with most of it still wound on the reel. Looks so neat. Then they push it out of the way somewhere out of site under the van. Saw this and tried as tactfully as I could to explain the situation, but ended up walking away before it turned into an argument. No one was going to tell him how to do anything. Since then I always just walk on by.

take care
Mike

 

[MDS69]

As mentioned above it is 20A these days for a domestic power circuit. You can have as many power outlets on a circuit as you like but it has to be fit for purpose. You might have 20 monitors on a circuit in one installation where you can only have 2 bar heaters in another scenario. The protection device is there to protect the fixed wiring not the equipment plugged into it. In a typical installation 2.5mm is rated for 20A.

 

[Drover]

Hi,

or someone who has a long 15A extension lead coiled up on a hose reel, winding out exactly what is needed to reach the power pole, with most of it still wound on the reel. Looks so neat. Then they push it out of the way somewhere out of site under the van. Saw this and tried as tactfully as I could to explain the situation, but ended up walking away before it turned into an argument. No one was going to tell him how to do anything. Since then I always just walk on by.

take care
Mike

Same here, I usually just walk back to van and check my fire extinguishers................... ...... broom to pull lead and dry powder job.

 

[rags]

@rags,

So you must have a lot of your appliances on different phases, hence being able to operate so many high power devices at the same time. Otherwise the circuit breaker should trip and prevent the wiring from getting hot , melting and catching fire. The advantage of 3 phase power that most domestic properties do not normally have. If you are going to run several air-conditioners, heaters or do a lot of continuous welding at the same time, you must have 3 phase power. Your hot water service is always on its own dedicated circuit and may have a 20A fuse while the cook top/and or electric oven have their own dedicated circuit protected by a 40 or 50 amp circuit breaker/fuse.

You also run 3 phase when there is a long run between the power pole and the house which was the case in our old house in NSW which had a run of around 150 metres.

We certainly need lots of power in our current home and have the bills to match. I guess the fact that we have 6AC units to run requires the power to match and only 3 phase will deliver that power.

The thing that really annoys me with the way power is run in Qld, is that there is no way to isolate the power between the meters and the switch board ( when located remote from the meter box) resulting in no means to isolate power running through the ceiling. This results in it being an excluded workspace under WHS requirements and trades like the pest control man won’t inspect the roof space.It is the same on our place on the sunny coast , both built around 2000.

 

[MDS69]

You also run 3 phase when there is a long run between the power pole and the house which was the case in our old house in NSW which had a run of around 150 metres.

We certainly need lots of power in our current home and have the bills to match. I guess the fact that we have 6AC units to run requires the power to match and only 3 phase will deliver that power.

The thing that really annoys me with the way power is run in Qld, is that there is no way to isolate the power between the meters and the switch board ( when located remote from the meter box) resulting in no means to isolate power running through the ceiling. This results in it being an excluded workspace under WHS requirements and trades like the pest control man won’t inspect the roof space.It is the same on our place on the sunny coast , both built around 2000.

I imagine there are supply authority service fuses on the same panel as the retailers meters however do acknowledge they have supply authority seals on them. It wouldn’t be the first time a seal has been broken to perform legal electrical work and not replaced the seals. Also on the load side of the meters is there not a circuit breaker on the meter panel to protect the submain to the house??

 

[rags]

I imagine there are supply authority service fuses on the same panel as the retailers meters however do acknowledge they have supply authority seals on them. It wouldn’t be the first time a seal has been broken to perform legal electrical work and not replaced the seals. Also on the load side of the meters is there not a circuit breaker on the meter panel to protect the submain to the house??

Yep I get that and are aware of that fact but when the pest man turns up and wants to crawl through the roof space, he isn’t going to pull the service fuses. A switch would be handy.