Dual Cab Chassis, Broken...Baw Haw..Sob..

Dean Anderson

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Feb 7, 2014
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Anyone out there had problems with their dual cab chassis... Bent mine today......On the bright side. Only 50 km from home....Will post photos tomorrow... Cause...Several bad dips at bad angles that caused the car and van to rock at angles that didn't agree with the chassis manufacturers specifications. Not overloaded or anything. I assume its like the Roman legions walking out of step when crossing bridges. 225kg standing weight is a lot different to 225kg jumping on your foot, and that's what basically happened.
 

cruza driver

Hercules
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Nov 9, 2010
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That's the 1st one I've heard of that model, what were you doing? (just curious PM if you like)

Do you have air bags? After market suspension?
 

Dean Anderson

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Feb 7, 2014
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Yeah have air bags, but inflated to 5 PSI just to keep them in there.... After I put them on I read posts and decidedto upgrade to Old Man Emu suspension (300-600kg) and kept them on for special occasions (ie for an extra bit of lift so the draw bar doesn't drag when parking the van in difficult spots (over gutters/etc).. I don't think the air bags were the problem.

I was driving at about (15km/hr) while parking for lunch (1/2 hr from home and the kids were hungry/complaining).

The side-road near Nindigully Pub had an indentation and a couple potholes/divots that I didn't see. The car went back and forth, followed by the van pushing the car back and forth (this all took about 3 seconds). We all thought it was rough..........I got out to go to the boys room while the better half made lunch, and on the way back noticed the tray not ligning up with the body..........................

Easy to blame one thing............I reckon the main cause was the depth and distance of the holes....I suppose that means me not seeing them....same s backing into a parked car I suppose..and I've done that before......

Draw bar weight 200kg..............get the rock wrong and it goes up to 800kg........add that onto the weight of stuff in the tray with the rock wrong and the chassis has to put up with 1500kg............. Not designed for it I suppose..............We want fuel economy..............Not rugged.....
 

Dean Anderson

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Feb 7, 2014
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Going to be interesting what the fix is from the insurance companies side. The cause??? Driving over nothing........The problem was the something on the other side...........Sort of like the fall not killing you, it's the sudden stop.
 

cruza driver

Hercules
Staff member
Nov 9, 2010
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I know of a D40 Navara that got fixed and the chassis strengthened with plates at the same time.

Let us know how you go, it really just sounds like a bad luck incident.
 

Dean Anderson

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Feb 7, 2014
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Best thing is, it was close to home at a reasonable time of day with great RACQ service. Am going to upgrade my RACQ from the Ford version to full. Had to pay an extra $55 to transport 4 people cause we wouldn't all fit in the trucks cab. Luckily we were within 50km of home otherwise we probably would have had to pay extra towing charges.
 
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Dobbie

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Jun 18, 2014
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Yeah good luck.

Could happen to anyone so just as well you were relatively close to home.

Those damn bricks hanging off the back of a vehicle sure cause some problems. Some of them we didn't even realise could be problems.
 
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achjimmy

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Jan 24, 2011
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Really is the tug fit for purpose if it happened this easily? Be interesting if ford denied it (which they will) so you asked them to hook up your legal van and redo the same thing?? It's really a straight forward fix and will only be improved by the use of fish plates on the Chasis but insurance companies can be fickle. You don't know a good panel beater do you?

what year is the Expanda? Why I ask is I have been concerned for a while with the independant dual axle vans. There is no load sharing so ball weight and single axle weight varies widely and dynamically!
 

achjimmy

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Jan 24, 2011
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Check out this brand new chopped LC200 !

Not trying to be arrogant but the difference between a standard 200 chassis and the current crop of utes is stupidly different and then the guy went and done this for a tray. Awesome and I reckon if I was decking out a dual cab I go a tray and try and do the same thing. Doubt she'll break if dropped!

image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
 

Dean Anderson

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Feb 7, 2014
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Only 30,000km. Had the service done by Ford a week before the bend. The list check checked suspension and they didn't state any problems.
Strengthening too much would only create another stress point further forward. The chassis goes from massive to half the size just behind the cab where there are vertical welds. (where the cab mount point is).

The van has dual axle with alko springs. Had a problem with one of those shearing the locater pin last trip, the u bolts must have been loose.
 
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macca

(aka maccayak)
Mar 20, 2012
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Do you have any photos Dean? I have a BT50 and tow a slightly larger van so I am interested in what happened and the outcome. I hope it all works out insurance wise for you. Since you posted I have noticed a few trays on different vehicle around with a noticeable bend towards the rear.
 

17triton

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Feb 24, 2013
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Sorry to hear about the ute Dean. @Dunga71 had the same thing happen to his Triton and got a insurance payout. I followed it on the Triton forum. He's not on here much but you might be able to pm him for some info?
 
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Dean Anderson

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Has made me rethink what I was going to do..... Already welded up frames for battery mounts behind the rear wheels...........that is now scraped....presently am thinking about shortening the tray a bit, moving the Ally boxes forward 150mm and moving things like the fridge and second battery equal to or in front of the rear axle.....

A bit of research after the fact and you tend to think."Holee Sheet..the forces involved are huge....."

Here's some examples......

If the rear suspension has to stop 200kg from a height of 30cm in 5cm (after the car suspension has maxed out due to tray load its the equivalent of placing a static 1200kg on your towball.

If you really load up and the suspension only has 2cm movement the load is equivalent to a static 3000kg.....

Of made itsimple by keeping it to kg instead of Newtons etc etc...... but I think we all underestimate the possibilities.........

Forget about dynamic forces....How much weight would you put on your towball before you would expect something to break????

My problem I feel was the car suspension maxing out at the same time as the download from the towball maxing out..........Can happen to anyone not on a well maintained bitumen road........... We all underestimate the forces involved and hope for the best.

Driving into a few bumps in the road is the same thing as driving into a few trees.........How big a tree will you drive into??? How many trees one after the other????

The difference is........a tree looks more substantial, but isn't.............THAT EMPTY HOLE IN THE GROUND IS FOLLOWED BY A BIG LUMP OF MOTHER EARTH...................................

The tree in comparison is insubstantial............
 
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bigcol

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Nov 22, 2012
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A lot of the articles seem quite concerned about airbags in suspension

this sounds like a quick easy blame

the airbags wont destroy / bend / break you chassis
they will only limit the compression of the springs


as well as loading.

that would be the understatement

as @Dean Anderson has rightly pointed out
the forces at work are far greater than we initially think
 

Dean Anderson

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Feb 7, 2014
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Not sure what the argument is......Its simple...........Halve the travel distance double the force on the chassis............Air bags can be a problem if used incorrectly........Of course they can decrease the velocity of the travel and hence the force on the chassis but they have to be set at the correct pressure. Setting that pressure can be difficult because like in my case all it takes is a few unexpected bumps and they should have been set to zero to maximise suspension travel and hence minimise force....Normal highway use and there pressure should be up.........

Was my car overloaded??? For the bumps I went through ................YES...............Was it my fault ????????????? .YES..........

This all brings us to another issue as well......................Towball weight..........

The Australian standard is 10% of trailer mass
European standard 6-8% of trailer mass

My ball weight was about 200 as specified as the max by Jayco.
If I had it at 150kg.............maybe my chassis would be OK????
 

bigcol

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Nov 22, 2012
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I'm not blaming anything @bigcol, just reading a lot of articles that mention airbags. I'm no expert on anything with this issue, nor saying it has anything to do with Dean's issue. But it sure makes interesting reading.

http://www.4x4australia.com.au/drive/1504/bent-utes/
And as for loading, @bigcol, just to clarify, I was referring to overloading, not the case for Dean by the sounds, but the case in many of the articles.

you have totally miss under stood me, my apologies for not being clearer

a lot of people (including "informed" motoring journalists) have not the slightest idea the function of the Air Bags fitted to suspensions
they are to
1) primarily to assist the springs in their function of supporting weight
2) assist in the down wards force exerted on said springs
3) help in maintaining the spring efficiency when under load
4) extend the life of the spring doing its job

now, take a Land Cruiser ute - 1000kg pay load
it will carry that 1000kg load for a long time, but over time the springs will weaken and sag
if you add Air Bags to the springs, it will still only carry 1000kgs, but it will extend the life of the spring

now, some air bags are quoted as being good for 200kgs & 400 kgs (that I have seen)
but it does not mean that you can now carry 1200kgs or even 1400kgs in your ute

as soon as the chassis cracks / breaks / snaps / whatever, the first port of call is............

Ahh, you have air bags, thats why XYZ happened
sorry, no thats NOT why XYZ happened, XYZ happened because it was not manufactured correctly in the first place

would it have happened without the air bags being there........???
possibly
maybe
probably

(metal fatigue in manufacturing is not that un-common, but a "SWL" Safe Working Load is worked out on Mechanical stress)
but that is an entirely different discussion

I remember the great debate in the late 70's and early 80's about putting turbo's on diesel engines, how the stress them too much, and blow motors
currently, there is also the push that LPG is bad for engines because they burn at 110% - there for they must run hotter - which is crap

anyway.....

to cut a long story longer - @Holden_man I was not having a go at you - merely poor journalism
 
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bigcol

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Was my car overloaded??? For the bumps I went through ................YES...............Was it my fault ????????????? .YES..........

what is the payload of your ute............?
what is the allowable towing amount....?
what is the maximum ball weight.........?


were you @Dean Anderson over in ANY of those figures................
if not, it was not your fault,
 
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bigcol

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I am talking about only going by the manufacturers guides

not if you were towing a van over bloody great pot holes in the road