Swan Difference between Camper Trailers over the years, Touring and Outback

BrokeInBendigo

New Member
Nov 25, 2020
8
4
3
Bendigo
Hi Expanda Peoples,

Thanks for all the of shared experience and knowledge on this forum. It's really helpful.

As I am looking into purchasing a used Jayco camper, I've been attempting to understand all of the varieties and differences of both Touring and Outback versions over the years. I am looking at an Outback Flamingo/Swan as the preferred model - Flamingo layout is the nicer of the two I think.

Personally, I care most about the suspension and mod-ability. Very rarely will we be at a caravan park - almost entirely free camping, so off-grid sustainability is important. Additionally, we will not shy from unsealed roads - no serious 4x4 action, but won't let dirt and corrugations prevent us from getting somewhere. I'll drive slow and lets some air out the tyres and take care of course.

Some of my expected modifications include:
- more solar panels than most people would need mounted on the roof (4 x 100W or 2 x 200W), along with a DCDC charger, high-capacity lithium battery, inverter and additional 12V points throughout the van
- if not an Outback version, underslung axle for improved clearance
- additional water tank (benefits from improved clearance as well)

My questions:
- Is the JTech independent suspension really a huge improvement over the previous Outback suspension (which I believe is just leaf springs with an axle)?
- When was JTech 2.0 released and is it worth paying more for one of these models?
- What about buying a Touring version and flipping the axle and adding bigger tyres? I could potentially fit tyres to match my towing vehicle as well...
- Do the Outback versions have greater payload allowance?
- I have read that a new roof style was introduced in 2014, and there were issues with cabling and the roof from 2015. I think this is also when the JTech suspension was first released (2014). Which roof is easiest to cut a hole through for some solar cabling (if not already provisioned)?
- Are there any years that have particularly bad issues?
- Any other reasons to go with Outback? It looks like it's just the chassis and suspension that are improved and relevant to me. I'll be ripping whatever 12v system is in there out anyways and doing that work myself.

Again, thank you all for your contributions on this forum!
 

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,054
1,806
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
Hi Expanda Peoples,

Thanks for all the of shared experience and knowledge on this forum. It's really helpful.

As I am looking into purchasing a used Jayco camper, I've been attempting to understand all of the varieties and differences of both Touring and Outback versions over the years. I am looking at an Outback Flamingo/Swan as the preferred model - Flamingo layout is the nicer of the two I think.

Personally, I care most about the suspension and mod-ability. Very rarely will we be at a caravan park - almost entirely free camping, so off-grid sustainability is important. Additionally, we will not shy from unsealed roads - no serious 4x4 action, but won't let dirt and corrugations prevent us from getting somewhere. I'll drive slow and lets some air out the tyres and take care of course.

Some of my expected modifications include:
- more solar panels than most people would need mounted on the roof (4 x 100W or 2 x 200W), along with a DCDC charger, high-capacity lithium battery, inverter and additional 12V points throughout the van
- if not an Outback version, underslung axle for improved clearance
- additional water tank (benefits from improved clearance as well)

My questions:
- Is the JTech independent suspension really a huge improvement over the previous Outback suspension (which I believe is just leaf springs with an axle)?
- When was JTech 2.0 released and is it worth paying more for one of these models?
- What about buying a Touring version and flipping the axle and adding bigger tyres? I could potentially fit tyres to match my towing vehicle as well...
- Do the Outback versions have greater payload allowance?
- I have read that a new roof style was introduced in 2014, and there were issues with cabling and the roof from 2015. I think this is also when the JTech suspension was first released (2014). Which roof is easiest to cut a hole through for some solar cabling (if not already provisioned)?
- Are there any years that have particularly bad issues?
- Any other reasons to go with Outback? It looks like it's just the chassis and suspension that are improved and relevant to me. I'll be ripping whatever 12v system is in there out anyways and doing that work myself.

Again, thank you all for your contributions on this forum!

Hi @BrokeInBendigo and welcome to the forum. You are sure to get a large array of answers for you to consider. I have a Touring Penguin 2013 model (same dimensions as Flamingo and Swan) and have "flipped" the axle and it does provide a much greater clearance for the body of the van. However, the Outback models have the J-tech independent suspension which provides clearance for the axle as well as the body. Outback models are heavier and naturally higher as the drawbar consists of two normal chassis rails, one on top of the other. Otherwise, they are basically the same as a Touring version. Watch your roof weight as two X 200W glass panels and any additional equipment will eat into your payload of only 300kgs. I have not had any major issues with the roof cabling to raise roof, but be aware that the max weight on winch and cables is approx 380 kgs from memory. I don't think Jayco recommend having aircon, solar panels and roof racks all attached to roof at the same time. I did not see the need (nor did I want to spend the money!) to fit bigger tyres and so am unable to advise on clearances etc.
I do not have any panels on the roof, but do have 2 X 200w and 1 X 180w folding portable panels which I carry inside the van.
That is all I can contribute from my own experiences, but there will be lots more from others I can assure you!
 

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,723
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QLD
You certainly don't want to load up the roof too much, repairing the wind up gear is a bustard of a job, something I can vouch for. replacing wheels to match the tug is a big outlay and I don't see any great advantage especially as you have to match rim off set........ with many years of wanderings the amount of flats encountered is bugga all, far better to know how to repair.... I prefer replace wheel/tyres with a size/type that is readilly available in most places outside the big smoke.

Biggest issue with upgrading things as mentioned by @Boots in Action is weight and buying a pre loved van you will find you are close to max before you add a thing due to earlier additions, have a very good check of canvas condition and windows, you don't want to be stuffing around with them......

Most importantly once you do buy one, use it first before you go and spend heaps on bits and pieces as often what seemed like a great idea isn't used once things settle down...

My Son In Law started off with a Swan or Eagle I think it was, it wasn't long after some stormy weather he sold it for a full van, the Swan novelty wore off after about a year of use and some bad weather and packing up.
 

BrokeInBendigo

New Member
Nov 25, 2020
8
4
3
Bendigo
Thanks Boots and Drover, great advice.

For solar on the roof I am strongly considering going for the flexible panels - super lightweight and reasonably durable.

Also just knowing how to replace or repair a tyre does sound more useful than the cost to buy matching wheels etc! Thanks for that.

I have read about many who got sick of the set up for the swan types and changed to a full caravan or pop top or penguin style. We are planning to live full time in the thing for several months and cross from Vic to WA in early fall.

Do the Penguin style campers fair better in inclement weather? I suppose yes to a degree bc the bed is inside. I don’t mind storms so long as we can keep water outside and not have our beds blow away!

One of the major draws of this variety of caravan is the ease of towing and being able to see a bit in the rear view mirror. Also a huge increase in space for your dollar. We are a couple with no kids but the space is still important for us!

As we will stay in one spot generally until we have to refill our water, setup time is less of a factor. We don’t mind so much, so long as it works well when set up and gives us some creature comforts.
 

mikerezny

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2016
1,630
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Mount Waverley, VIC
Hi,
one major factor with adding things to a Jayco camper trailer is payload. They only have 300kg. Extra panels, batteries and a water tank are going quickly consume much of that payload, leaving little left for food, clothing, gas, cooking gear etc, especially if you are intending to live in it for an extended period of time.

Flexible panels and roof mounting are match made in hell. The various forums are full of examples of overheated panels stuck to the roof. Best practice at the moment is to mount a modest amount of standard solar on the roof, supplemented with portable lightweight panels which can be positioned for maximum solar exposure. This allows the van battery to be charged whilst traveling and allows the van to be parked for maximum shade in hot weather. The portable panel can easily be used for a number of other tasks: charging the car battery on long stays off-grid as well as other batteries.

All Jayco camper trailers are susceptible to wind, especially gusting wind which puts a lot of strain on the four support struts. Especially with a lot of weight on the roof to add more momentum. They can also be quite prone to water leaks. The penguin somewhat less so since it doesn't have the added complexity of pull out bed ends.

take care
Mike
 

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,723
19,450
113
QLD
@mikerezny has hit the nail quite well, thing to remember is a portable 120w panel for example will give more power than probably 300w of roof mounted gear because it will be getting full sun for most of day if positioned correctly as the day progresses where the roof jobs only get 4 hours at most if lucky............... I don't think flexible panels are much chop at all at the moment, at least not for longetivity.............. and the rated output take off 30% and you will be close to what reality will be................. @Boots in Action has some good data on what to expect from portables.
 

BrokeInBendigo

New Member
Nov 25, 2020
8
4
3
Bendigo
Yeah, I’m familiar with the disadvantages of roof mounted solar. I am building a 280Ah lithium battery which will weight around 25kg all up. This is a lot of power, and it doesn’t necessarily need max solar input every day. I’m open to running my vehicle for a few hours once a week (or a generator if allowed) to top up if really needed

I’ll definitely take the advice that flexible solar panels on the roof are a bad idea! I currently have a 200W solar blanket that does OK. Probably best to not put anything on the roof, then, and just have portable solar as you all have suggested.

We are also looking at non-campers. Do Expandas have similar issues with gusts? of course any van with canvas anywhere will not fair as well as a solid frame.
 

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,054
1,806
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
Hi,
one major factor with adding things to a Jayco camper trailer is payload. They only have 300kg. Extra panels, batteries and a water tank are going quickly consume much of that payload, leaving little left for food, clothing, gas, cooking gear etc, especially if you are intending to live in it for an extended period of time.

Flexible panels and roof mounting are match made in hell. The various forums are full of examples of overheated panels stuck to the roof. Best practice at the moment is to mount a modest amount of standard solar on the roof, supplemented with portable lightweight panels which can be positioned for maximum solar exposure. This allows the van battery to be charged whilst traveling and allows the van to be parked for maximum shade in hot weather. The portable panel can easily be used for a number of other tasks: charging the car battery on long stays off-grid as well as other batteries.

All Jayco camper trailers are susceptible to wind, especially gusting wind which puts a lot of strain on the four support struts. Especially with a lot of weight on the roof to add more momentum. They can also be quite prone to water leaks. The penguin somewhat less so since it doesn't have the added complexity of pull out bed ends.

take care
Mike
Great advice there Mike @mikerezny . For @BrokeInBendigo, I do not have the roll out type awning, only the poor man's "bagged awning" which requires poles and ropes. I have single ropes (sprung) for the two centre poles and double ropes (sprung) for both ends, so one side is held down by 6 ropes. I have been through some very strong winds in thunder storms in Queensland and have never felt worried about losing anything. Water and wind has roared through under the awning (full annex not in place) and against the canvas walls and I am yet to experience any water entering the van via canvas windows or seams or roof. As the Penguin I have has a sail track on all 4 sides, any added awnings or sun screens can be attached and also help to anchor the whole van in place against most heavy gusts of a gale. Yes, it does take a bit of setting up, but part of the camping scene!
The flexibility of portable solar panels should not be overlooked. You can have your van in the shade and panels in the sun which can be a bit of a problem with roof mounted panels sometimes. And yes, even it is a bit of work humping folding glass solar panels around (approx 12/13kgs each) with 10 metre lead to place them in best sunny position/angle for max solar harvesting, I can always get power into van battery/ies. Think twice before purchasing flexible solar panels, especially if sticking them down on roof without any air gap. This forum has many tales of early and expensive failures as do a lot of other forums!
 

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,054
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Ferny Grove, Queensland
@mikerezny has hit the nail quite well, thing to remember is a portable 120w panel for example will give more power than probably 300w of roof mounted gear because it will be getting full sun for most of day if positioned correctly as the day progresses where the roof jobs only get 4 hours at most if lucky............... I don't think flexible panels are much chop at all at the moment, at least not for longetivity.............. and the rated output take off 30% and you will be close to what reality will be................. @Boots in Action has some good data on what to expect from portables.

@BrokeInBendigo , portable solar panels are cheap at the moment . A 200w folding panel (weighs about 12kgs) can be obtained on Ebay for $119.00 delivered. The attached would be a good buy I believe as it has Anderson plug connection as well as alligator clips. The solar controller on the back is acceptable and provides you with some idea of what it is doing. Note is NOT a proper MPPT controller, just a PWM type!!!

 

BrokeInBendigo

New Member
Nov 25, 2020
8
4
3
Bendigo
@BrokeInBendigo , portable solar panels are cheap at the moment . A 200w folding panel (weighs about 12kgs) can be obtained on Ebay for $119.00 delivered. The attached would be a good buy I believe as it has Anderson plug connection as well as alligator clips. The solar controller on the back is acceptable and provides you with some idea of what it is doing. Note is NOT a proper MPPT controller, just a PWM type!!!

That’s not a 200W panel. It is sold as 200W but that is a lie.

A 100W panel will need around 0.6 square meters of PV cells. That panel, unfolded, is around 0.7. Solar panels are getting cheaper but so are the mass retailers - this kind of scam is extremely common.

Edit: the previous estimate is based on the linked cells’ asserted 17% efficiency

To elaborate, solar manufacturers assume 1000W per square meter of max sunlight. The efficiency of a panel is often listed as a spec. Those linked eBay panels assert an efficiency of 17% (which is not great - current good efficiency is just over 20%). The dimensions of the unfolded panel are 1.36 x 0.54 meters. So we can calculate the rough max output of those panels: 1000 * 1.36 * .54 * 0.17 = 124.828 watts. that’s if the whole panel was PV cell, which it is not. Some is the frame. If the cells were the best on the market, at around 23% efficiency, you’d be looking at a 168.912W panel. Again, subtract some for the frame. And subtract a significant amount because you aren’t getting perpendicular sunlight on the panels really ever. And the cells are going to heat up, losing efficiency in the process. These cheap panel sellers are lying about the wattage - why should we believe they are telling the truth with regard to efficiency even? I am very skeptical of cheap solar panels. A quality 100W panel seems to go for around $100 at this time, usually a bit more.

edit2:
Have a look at a quality panel by a quality Australian brand - Projecta: https://www.projecta.com.au/solar-p...-fixed-solar-panels-with-mc4-connectors-4nxzm
This 120W panel is 1.54 by 0.481 m = 0.75517 square meters. If we assume efficiency of 17% then we get a roughly 128W panel. Minus a margin for the frame and this panel is spot on. If you don’t get the expected wattage, or close to it, from this panel, you can get it swapped and you will get the wattage described (in perfect conditions meaning 1000W of perpendicular light per square meter). Projecta will stand by their panel. The eBay panel cannot produce anywhere close to its promised wattage and no matter how good their warranty is, you won’t get a unit from them they does as promised. You can buy that panel and expect to get the wattage you calculate as I did earlier, but then you are better off just paying a bit more for a panel that is quality and getting the same or more power from it anyways
 
Last edited:

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Mentone, VIC
Hey @BrokeInBendigo. Touring campers are very very low. Jtech suspension is a little un-necessarily high off the ground and quite weighty adding around 130kg. A camper with Jtech suspension is pretty high folded up, and short of the prime mover you'd be unlikely to see over it in the mirror. Many of us started out with wind up Jaycos, including me. I had mine for many years, didn't know any better and loved it. The older 16ft Expandas will give you all the joy of a wind up, but with many added benefits. The length, width and weight specs are pretty close between the 2. The Expanda is easier to pack, will allow access to you to use it for smoko and lunch stops, storage is more convenient and they do come in bathroom models.

Don't underestimate the value of a bathroom, no-one with a bathroom ever regrets having it. Campings fun, but wandering into the bush in the drizzle, poo tickets and shovel in hand is not.

Our camper was way back in the 80s, but we never had any leaking or significant issues with wind. We got smashed in Shoalhaven during at the time, the worst nsw coastal storm, and I thought the camper was going to tip. I had to pull the camper around by hand and park the Patrol against it. Following morning business as usual. Campers do buffer about a bit with high wind and the roof being on skinny extendable stick can wobble about a little in the high winds, which can be annoying or even worrying but they remarkably resilient. We got hammered at South West Rocks in the little Expanda, the wind so strong it took 2 hands to open the door. We folded up the rear bed and dropped the poptop and slept like babies.

The Expanda bed ends are pretty stable, particularly the hardlid models post 2008. Camper will require flies and without flies the bed ends will condensate, Expandas with hardlids wont.

Many of the folk on here started out with the smaller single axel Expandas, and Im pretty confident the collective advice would be you can go from a camper to an Expanda, but there's no going back the other way.
 
Last edited:

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,054
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113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
That’s not a 200W panel. It is sold as 200W but that is a lie.

A 100W panel will need around 0.6 square meters of PV cells. That panel, unfolded, is around 0.7. Solar panels are getting cheaper but so are the mass retailers - this kind of scam is extremely common.

Edit: the previous estimate is based on the linked cells’ asserted 17% efficiency

To elaborate, solar manufacturers assume 1000W per square meter of max sunlight. The efficiency of a panel is often listed as a spec. Those linked eBay panels assert an efficiency of 17% (which is not great - current good efficiency is just over 20%). The dimensions of the unfolded panel are 1.36 x 0.54 meters. So we can calculate the rough max output of those panels: 1000 * 1.36 * .54 * 0.17 = 124.828 watts. that’s if the whole panel was PV cell, which it is not. Some is the frame. If the cells were the best on the market, at around 23% efficiency, you’d be looking at a 168.912W panel. Again, subtract some for the frame. And subtract a significant amount because you aren’t getting perpendicular sunlight on the panels really ever. And the cells are going to heat up, losing efficiency in the process. These cheap panel sellers are lying about the wattage - why should we believe they are telling the truth with regard to efficiency even? I am very skeptical of cheap solar panels. A quality 100W panel seems to go for around $100 at this time, usually a bit more.

edit2:
Have a look at a quality panel by a quality Australian brand - Projecta: https://www.projecta.com.au/solar-p...-fixed-solar-panels-with-mc4-connectors-4nxzm
This 120W panel is 1.54 by 0.481 m = 0.75517 square meters. If we assume efficiency of 17% then we get a roughly 128W panel. Minus a margin for the frame and this panel is spot on. If you don’t get the expected wattage, or close to it, from this panel, you can get it swapped and you will get the wattage described (in perfect conditions meaning 1000W of perpendicular light per square meter). Projecta will stand by their panel. The eBay panel cannot produce anywhere close to its promised wattage and no matter how good their warranty is, you won’t get a unit from them they does as promised. You can buy that panel and expect to get the wattage you calculate as I did earlier, but then you are better off just paying a bit more for a panel that is quality and getting the same or more power from it anyways

Hi @BrokeInBendigo , I am surprised that you know so much about the theory of solar generation but not the way they are advertised. All out puts are rated at STC which one never gets but the figures they give are quite correct, eg a "rated" 200w panel will produce 10.9A (200 rated output divided by max charge voltage 18.3) still gives 10.90A. If you take out all the variations of non-active area, temperature of panel above 25C (easily gets to 55 to 60C ) and the optimum angle and brightness not being attained, you are quite right in saying that ACTUAL output would be a lot lower ( around 144w?) (charging voltage of 18v or less X output of just 8A) gives you the real figure. But that is advertising for you and the unwary!!
Yes, cell efficiency is critical, but then so too is the electrical connections of each cell within the panel and how the 72 cells or only 36 cells are joined up to provide the best charging voltage . Another is the type of Bypass Diodes used in connecting both halves of the folding panel. Most have the standard silicon type diode which have a forward voltage drop of 0.7 volts. I replaced all mine with Schottky type which have a lot lower forward voltage drop of around 0.4 volts. Every bit counts!!!
Whilst you are correct about efficiency and cost and advertising, I have accepted all those things as we live in an imperfect world and my wallet is limited. I have 3 panels 2 x 200w (charging voltage of 18.4 volts) and 1 X 180w (charging voltage of 18.3 volts) - not just advertised but physically tested with my own equipment. All connected in SERIES to an efficient MPPT controller. I only have the one 120ah AGM (now 7 years old) and when battery voltage is around 12.2 volts under a load of 4.0A, I can regularly get 25.0A into battery from panels with total panel charging voltage of 48 volts. When battery is fully charged and in FLOAT mode, charging voltage from panels has risen to 55 to 56 volts and dropped current to only 3A. Daily charge from panels can exceed 55ah!! So while I may not have the "TOP OF THE LINE PANELS", I can more than meet my demands (and others as well) and still have dollars left. Regardless of advertising hype, I believe that the panel suggested at $95.20 (now) delivered is excellent value "for what it is"!!
 
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BJM

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2018
485
549
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Yamba
Had a few camper trailers ,two Off Road Cubs ,one was a late model with all the bits and bobs.Hard floor easy packup and go.Then rebuilt two rotten AVans ,one to off road specs.This followed my 2000Xj for five years ,gave it hell it stood up well.! Regards the Jayco Eagles etc.My mate had one for few years.Always last to get set up ,last to packup especially if wet when they are a pain in the backside.His lifting mechanism broke twice,many had roof problems.Still think the JTech suspension better bet if doing a lot of off road.Beware of the durability of cheap flexable solar panels,I have seen the plastic biodegrade in 12 months.
 

BrokeInBendigo

New Member
Nov 25, 2020
8
4
3
Bendigo
Hi @BrokeInBendigo , I am surprised that you know so much about the theory of solar generation but not the way they are advertised. All out puts are rated at STC which one never gets but the figures they give are quite correct, eg a "rated" 200w panel will produce 10.9A (200 rated output divided by max charge voltage 18.3) still gives 10.90A. If you take out all the variations of non-active area, temperature of panel above 25C (easily gets to 55 to 60C ) and the optimum angle and brightness not being attained, you are quite right in saying that ACTUAL output would be a lot lower ( around 144w?) (charging voltage of 18v or less X output of just 8A) gives you the real figure. But that is advertising for you and the unwary!!
Yes, cell efficiency is critical, but then so too is the electrical connections of each cell within the panel and how the 72 cells or only 36 cells are joined up to provide the best charging voltage . Another is the type of Bypass Diodes used in connecting both halves of the folding panel. Most have the standard silicon type diode which have a forward voltage drop of 0.7 volts. I replaced all mine with Schottky type which have a lot lower forward voltage drop of around 0.4 volts. Every bit counts!!!
Whilst you are correct about efficiency and cost and advertising, I have accepted all those things as we live in an imperfect world and my wallet is limited. I have 3 panels 2 x 200w (charging voltage of 18.4 volts) and 1 X 180w (charging voltage of 18.3 volts) - not just advertised but physically tested with my own equipment. All connected in SERIES to an efficient MPPT controller. I only have the one 120ah AGM (now 7 years old) and when battery voltage is around 12.2 volts under a load of 4.0A, I can regularly get 25.0A into battery from panels with total panel charging voltage of 48 volts. When battery is fully charged and in FLOAT mode, charging voltage from panels has risen to 55 to 56 volts and dropped current to only 3A. Daily charge from panels can exceed 55ah!! So while I may not have the "TOP OF THE LINE PANELS", I can more than meet my demands (and others as well) and still have dollars left. Regardless of advertising hype, I believe that the panel suggested at $95.20 (now) delivered is excellent value "for what it is"!!
Thanks Boots, I appreciate you sharing your experience. I definitely do not know how these things are advertised, just know enough about electronics that my BS meter starts wiggling when I see some of these panels on Ebay haha. I agree that if it works and charges your batteries, then it works and charges your batteries.

Have you posted anywhere about how you upgraded your bypass diodes? This is one of the required features for me when I buy panels - a lot of the cheap ones don't have any diodes. I think some of the really nice panels have diodes between ever cell but not sure about that.

Speaking of voltage drop, it pays to use nice and thick pure copper cables for your panels - a couple volts dropped along a crappy thin copper-clad aluminium cable really hurts the output! Mentioning this for others' knowledge - not yours, I know you already know what's up in this area.
 

BrokeInBendigo

New Member
Nov 25, 2020
8
4
3
Bendigo
Hey @BrokeInBendigo. Touring campers are very very low. Jtech suspension is a little un-necessarily high off the ground and quite weighty adding around 130kg. A camper with Jtech suspension is pretty high folded up, and short of the prime mover you'd be unlikely to see over it in the mirror. Many of us started out with wind up Jaycos, including me. I had mine for many years, didn't know any better and loved it. The older 16ft Expandas will give you all the joy of a wind up, but with many added benefits. The length, width and weight specs are pretty close between the 2. The Expanda is easier to pack, will allow access to you to use it for smoko and lunch stops, storage is more convenient and they do come in bathroom models.

Don't underestimate the value of a bathroom, no-one with a bathroom ever regrets having it. Campings fun, but wandering into the bush in the drizzle, poo tickets and shovel in hand is not.

Our camper was way back in the 80s, but we never had any leaking or significant issues with wind. We got smashed in Shoalhaven during at the time, the worst nsw coastal storm, and I thought the camper was going to tip. I had to pull the camper around by hand and park the Patrol against it. Following morning business as usual. Campers do buffer about a bit with high wind and the roof being on skinny extendable stick can wobble about a little in the high winds, which can be annoying or even worrying but they remarkably resilient. We got hammered at South West Rocks in the little Expanda, the wind so strong it took 2 hands to open the door. We folded up the rear bed and dropped the poptop and slept like babies.

The Expanda bed ends are pretty stable, particularly the hardlid models post 2008. Camper will require flies and without flies the bed ends will condensate, Expandas with hardlids wont.

Many of the folk on here started out with the smaller single axel Expandas, and Im pretty confident the collective advice would be you can go from a camper to an Expanda, but there's no going back the other way.
This is great insight, thank you. Over the past week or so, my partner and I have "Expanda'd" our budget a bit and are now looking at hard-lid expandas with ensuites now. Also very good to hear how you were able to batten down the hatches and weather the storm, which is not an option with the swan-type camper trailers!
 
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BrokeInBendigo

New Member
Nov 25, 2020
8
4
3
Bendigo
Had a few camper trailers ,two Off Road Cubs ,one was a late model with all the bits and bobs.Hard floor easy packup and go.Then rebuilt two rotten AVans ,one to off road specs.This followed my 2000Xj for five years ,gave it hell it stood up well.! Regards the Jayco Eagles etc.My mate had one for few years.Always last to get set up ,last to packup especially if wet when they are a pain in the backside.His lifting mechanism broke twice,many had roof problems.Still think the JTech suspension better bet if doing a lot of off road.Beware of the durability of cheap flexable solar panels,I have seen the plastic biodegrade in 12 months.
Thanks for your feedback, we have decided that an Expanda or similar (meaning not a swan-type camper) is how we will go. I'm saving the solar panel install until we get the van, we may buy a used one that already has some panels. I've been convinced not to go flexible for sure, though (only ever used glass and a solar blanket).
 

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,054
1,806
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Ferny Grove, Queensland
Thanks Boots, I appreciate you sharing your experience. I definitely do not know how these things are advertised, just know enough about electronics that my BS meter starts wiggling when I see some of these panels on Ebay haha. I agree that if it works and charges your batteries, then it works and charges your batteries.

Have you posted anywhere about how you upgraded your bypass diodes? This is one of the required features for me when I buy panels - a lot of the cheap ones don't have any diodes. I think some of the really nice panels have diodes between ever cell but not sure about that.

Speaking of voltage drop, it pays to use nice and thick pure copper cables for your panels - a couple volts dropped along a crappy thin copper-clad aluminium cable really hurts the output! Mentioning this for others' knowledge - not yours, I know you already know what's up in this area.

Just a bit more info on solar for you @BrokeInBendigo . Bypass diodes only come into their own when partial panel is shaded or a set of panels in a string is shaded. I am unaware of any panels that have bypass diodes between every cell. Generally, folding solar panels (which I have) consist of 36 or 72 cells in EACH folding panel (both sides) which are connected in Series and then in Parallel. Each cell produces approx 0.56 volts, so each section is capable of producing around 20.0 volts. Strings are connected within EACH portion of both panel sides and these are then connected in parallel to increase current, with Bypass diodes across each section. Blocking diodes are usually within the regulator which prevents current flowing back into non producing panels (if connected in parallel) and at night time. If you have the time or interest, you can go back through the Solar Thread and get a complete story as this has been discussed at length by many members. The real secret to solar generation is the use of a MPPT (proper type!!) to get the max out of your panel/s. Normal charging output of a solar panel is approx 18.0 volts and if using a long lead with ordinary type cable with insufficient cross-sectional quality copper cable, voltage losses are high and with a PWM controller, you are stuck with this less than optimum voltage to charge battery.. If using a MPPT controller with several panels in SERIES, length and thickness of cable is less important as panel voltage output is high so less need for heavy cables at 50 odd volts. Indeed, I usually have all three panels connected up, but recently, I only had time to connect one up to my MPPT controller. Battery was down to 12.2 volts, and load around 4.0 amps. When connected in clear sunshine and optimum angle, I actually obtained 10.01 amps at 16.5 volts going into battery as shown on MPPT solar controller display. So panel/s with the optimum MPPT controller can provide close to "rated" max of panel through the use of modern electronics. The attached may be of assistance to you if wanting to get the best result. Good luck!

 

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