Chassis 6 stud Patrol/Cruiser to 5 stud cruiser. 16.49.3OB

W

Wes

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Nov 14, 2014
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HI Everyone
I've been searching for information on changing the standard 6 stud pattern on my 16.49.3 to a 5 stud pattern.

I would love to be able to use the same wheels on tow tug and van - used to when we had a Patrol, but now have a 200 series. We go to remote places as often as possible, so it would be great to match tyres/rims again. As many people must be towing these with 100 series IFS or 200 series Landcruisers, I thought this would be quite a common thing to do.

However, I cant find any info on it either on this forum or by using google. So, I'm either hopeless at searching for it or its so difficult to do that no one has bothered.
FWIW - mine is a 2009 16.49.3OB HL

Please help point me in the right direction
RTG 200-16.49.jpg
 
mfexpanda

mfexpanda

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Wes

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Thanks Mfex, I was looking at that site yesterday. im going to have to pull the brake drum off and look for part numbers I think :(

Encouraging though that they seem to so the 5 stud LC pattern.
 
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Bellbirdweb

Bellbirdweb

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I did a bit of research when we first got our 21.64-1 to try and do the same thing, but the little I could find seems to indicate that it wasn't possible or was a lot of mucking around to achieve.

Would be interested if it can be done by a simple swap over, but things like space in the guards, suspension etc all seemed to make this harder than it sounded.
 
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Wes

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I'm comfortable with space in guards on mine. currently have 17" patrol alloys on it with 275/65 tyres as per the photo above. If I increase the offset ( patrol is ET10, 200 series is ET60) it will actually fit better as it can touch the inner guard when compressed. also I changed to underslung which gave me an extra 140 mm lift too.

not sure how you'd go for space with significantly bigger wheels on a dual axle on a 21.64

im going to take the brake hub off on the weekend and see what I can see. if I was a betting man, id say im going to need to replace both hub and brake assemblies to make this work, but if im lucky I may be able to simply change the brake drum.... fingers crossed....
 
Drover

Drover

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If it's available this mob will have it, https://www.couplemate.com.au/ have bought bits from them before, when I went to a bigger better rims I borrowed one and checked how it fitted as the off set was miles away from the original, fitted with room to spare, biggest problem with marrying all your wheels you end up putting very expensive tyres and rims on a trailer. I just carry a spare tyre and some tools.

Oh and have used this mob as well, http://www.alltrailerspares.com.au/...e_Parts,_Boating_and_Caravan_accessories.aspx
 
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Bellbirdweb

Bellbirdweb

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Wes said:
I'm comfortable with space in guards on mine. currently have 17" patrol alloys on it with 275/65 tyres as per the photo above. If I increase the offset ( patrol is ET10, 200 series is ET60) it will actually fit better as it can touch the inner guard when compressed. also I changed to underslung which gave me an extra 140 mm lift too.

not sure how you'd go for space with significantly bigger wheels on a dual axle on a 21.64

im going to take the brake hub off on the weekend and see what I can see. if I was a betting man, id say im going to need to replace both hub and brake assemblies to make this work, but if im lucky I may be able to simply change the brake drum.... fingers crossed....
Click to expand...

Mine also has the JTech independent suspension to add to the degree of difficulty
 
W

Wes

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Nov 14, 2014
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Okay, so I took the wheel off and had a look. My part number is 429000. Unfortunately, this doesn't match with an AL-KO part number on their website. Interestingly though - in the electric drum brake section - they list 429001 and 429002. These are both 12x2" drum and hub assemblies, with 429001 being the 6x139.7 as I have and 429002 being the 5x150 which I want.
So this morning I have emailed the AL-KO helpline to ask if 429002 is a direct replacement for 429000. Hopefully it will be and this only has a special part number for some reason dedicated to Jayco. These hubs are $173plus GST from my local trailer parts supplier, so fingers crossed....
 
mfexpanda

mfexpanda

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Apr 1, 2011
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Wes said:
Okay, so I took the wheel off and had a look. My part number is 429000. Unfortunately, this doesn't match with an AL-KO part number on their website. Interestingly though - in the electric drum brake section - they list 429001 and 429002. These are both 12x2" drum and hub assemblies, with 429001 being the 6x139.7 as I have and 429002 being the 5x150 which I want.
So this morning I have emailed the AL-KO helpline to ask if 429002 is a direct replacement for 429000. Hopefully it will be and this only has a special part number for some reason dedicated to Jayco. These hubs are $173plus GST from my local trailer parts supplier, so fingers crossed....
Click to expand...
sounds right so you may be in luck
 
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Drover

Drover

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Many moons ago I searched high and low for something to match my drum numbers, has the Alko stamp and everything, nothing even emailed them, still waiting. Ended up taking the thing off measuring everything matched the bearings numbers and then the planets alighned. I think they must do a special run for the manufacturer and thats why the number doesn't come up on any listings.

To find a 5 stud drum you should just need the diameter, shoe width and bearing numbers, the bearing numbers most important as they will ensure the right hub..............easier just to pull one off, take it in to brake shop and ask for one with 5 bolt thingy's for a Cruiser, P.O.P........
 
W

Wes

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Nov 14, 2014
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Drover said:
Many moons ago I searched high and low for something to match my drum numbers, has the Alko stamp and everything, nothing even emailed them, still waiting. Ended up taking the thing off measuring everything matched the bearings numbers and then the planets alighned. I think they must do a special run for the manufacturer and thats why the number doesn't come up on any listings.

To find a 5 stud drum you should just need the diameter, shoe width and bearing numbers, the bearing numbers most important as they will ensure the right hub..............easier just to pull one off, take it in to brake shop and ask for one with 5 bolt thingy's for a Cruiser, P.O.P........
Click to expand...

Thanks Drover.
Please elaborate as to how I find bearing numbers if you can remember. Whether I make this change or not, sounds like something that would be good to know in any case.
P.s. - if they don't return my email, I'll call. I get a bit "dog with a bone" with this sort of thing.... :)
 
Drover

Drover

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Only one sure fire way to check bearing numbers and thats to take the hub off and look at them, only way as they may not use the same axle/bearing on on all models.......supply glitches can cause short time changes.............a measurement of the inner bearing axle width will usually suffice as you usually need to remove the oil seal which means replacing with a new one.

Thats why if unsure just take the whole hub into a brake shop, they have listings of everything and hands on means usually getting right first time, online orders need a bit of guess work and freight costs. They measure it up, and all should match and if your lucky it's on the shelf.

Everyone should have a set of spare bearings and physically match the numbers to whats on the vehicle, don't take their word they are the right one's.
 
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Wes

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Got hold of Al-Ko technical help on the phone. Yes, my part number 429000 is interchangeable with 429001 (6 stud) and 429002 (5stud), from a bearings and brakes perspective. So that's good news. :)

The bad news - and the reason why I don't think anyone seems to have done this before - is to do with offsets. In my initial thoughts (see above posts) I thought the P60 200 series wheel would fit better than the P10 Patrol wheel, because the van could actually use more space between tyre and wheel arch/springs. But I had that thought the wrong way around as in fact, this difference in offset puts the tyre 50mm closer to the spring pack, which is impossible (O offset is ideal and what the Jayco alloys are, the P10 patrol rims I'm running sometimes touch the spring pack with a 6mm spacer fitted).

Therefore its impossible to fit 200 series alloys onto my Jayco. :(

BUT.
I was always thinking of changing rims so that the car and van had the same rims, and given the price of 200 series alloys I had considered steelies. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I like them. I also don't particularly like the narrow track look of a lifted 200 series, so would ideally like something with a smaller offset like P30 to fill the guards.
My current though pattern has two options:
1. Leave everything alone and carry two types of tyres/rims. Would be a no-brainer if we didn't regularly travel poor roads. Leaves the 200 with its narrow track look and the whole setup doesn't match from a looks perspective.
2. Buy 8 of the P30 steel wheels, replacing the factory alloys on the car and on the van fit these with 38mm wheel spacers from snake racing. I personally have no problem with wheel spacers (on the assumption they're quality made not chinese crap, like anything) and know heaps of people running these on 79 series utes with no ill effect. As I only increase my wheel track by 16mm over standard, I don't think there is any legal issues either. The advantage is that everything matches so looks mint and I have total interchangeability giving me piece of mind and one less spare to carry as in emergencies I could use the tyres off the van and stay mobile.

Hmmmm.....
 
Drover

Drover

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Sounds like a lot of stuffing around because of looks not to mention $$$$, when I changed rims on the 14.44 while I only went for width the off set on the RoH rims was much more than the Jayco alloys, just can't remember what the Jayco ones were but I know the RoH were 80mm hub to rim and when I ran the tape over everything the tyre cleared the chassis with 25mm to spare but on paper the figures said NO, it all worked but then you have to please 2 vehicles........I have a spare set of tyre levers if you like......................lol.

When I used to do dirt stuff for money, I hardly did tyres in and mostly had green stuff in them which saved a lot of puncture repars or wheel changes, only changed them when they blew to bits.

What about changing the hubs on the Tojo, might be easier ?????????????
 
W

Wes

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Nov 14, 2014
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Okay, I just wanted to finish this post off and let anyone know my findings and decision, should anyone choose to do this.

As above, yes AL-KO part numbers 429000 (standard 6x139.7 on my Jayco), 429001 (6x139.7) and 429002 (5x150) are interchangeable. However due to the P60 offset of 200 series wheels, they will still not fit if you change the hub to 429002 as they will impact the chassis, spring pack and brake assemblies.
However, I do believe that it would be possible to fit a wider axle and make this work. The axle would need to be 130mm wider/longer (although you would need to take your own accurate measurements depending on tyre size) to use the standard 200 series wheels, or less if you change rims for something with less positive offset like P47 or P30.

I have decided to leave mine for a couple of reasons:
1. the cost of new axle and hub assemblies would be about $800, plus fitting if you're not confident to do yourself
2. my travelling companion has a van (not a jayco) and we have just upgraded his springs, hubs etc to take the Patrol wheel same as mine. therefore we have the interchangability I was after and can carry less spare wheels overall.
3. I have just fitted 305/65/17 to the cruiser standard wheels and they have filled the guards nicely.

If anyone wants more info from my research or I can help, please PM away.
 
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Wes

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"..why that tyre size though?" If you're asking about the 305 65 17 on the cruiser? Because that's as big as will fit with the standard UCA's and wheels.
On the van with Patrol 17" alloys I have the Patrol standard 275 65 17, as these are a common size. I could have fitted 285 65 17 standard 200 series size or even 285 70 17 in terms of room could probably work too, but I don't want/need any more height.
 
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