What do you think about this

[Crusty181]

A good mate of mine is reconnecting with the joys of vanning, albiet he abandoned it many years ago after only a brief interlude.

No names, no pack drill on the brand in question ... but heres the pitch

A nameless van on a well know nameless chassis. 18ft single axle. 180 tbm. 2 x 90ltr water tanks both well fwd of the axle and a 60ltr grey tank well behind the axle. The atm is 2700kg and factory tbm 180kg.

After the dealer refusing to entertain relocating the tanks, I told my mate (whos pretty keen on this van) to give it a wide berth. The sales'nong used the little wobbly tow car demo they roll out at the caravan show as the reason for not relocating the tanks .... i suggested that the exact reason why they should.

Im struggling to see how on gods earth a varying and dynamic 240kg weight shift from front to back, and the tbm fluctuation resulting from that shift could ever be regarded as safe across that range of weight variation.

Thought ????

 

[DRW]

that's just one example too, I saw a huge off road van entering Bargara today behind a dual cab ute with all the "stuff" you need for a holiday in the tub and on roof racks, I know this particular van is one heavy mother, my mid boggles sometimes

 

[jazzeddie1234]

My tbm has never been closer than +50kgs of the plackard but most utes are ok up to 300kg (ish) and can be managed (but not fixed....) with a WDH. You could estimate the weight variation by the distance from hitch to tanks to CV axle. Eg. at half way the variation would be 90kg

Having said that, I'm a big fan of the 10% guide and my van is 2700kg loaded so i aim for 270 to 290 up front. Of course that means I can't carry a full load in the tray to stay under the GVM limit

 

[Drover]

As I have just gone over this tow ball weight with Big Mal again recently, hunting the mysterious extra weight its has added since last time years ago, I can assure you that it depends how far in front of the axles the water tanks are as to how much extra load is thrown onto the ball, Big Mal's tanks are in front of axle and dumping one tank does not take 70kg away from the ball when emptied, I have worked out that like loading trucks there is a point where the load moves either towards or away from the axle, on a van its for each individual rig to be looked at, axle configuration plays a big part in load distribution so its a "Oils Ain't Oils" situation....roughly if you draw a line half way between axle and hitch anything on the axle side a roughy of 30% will end up on the ball' closer to the line and beyond it will of course shift more to it..... plonking 40kg on the bumper won't lift 40kg off the ball either, each van the angle of the dangle is different.... and having just re read the post before this applies to dual axle not single, something entirely different.............

In my case I was chasing a mysterious 10-15kg gain, stripped everything to the base line load and worked up, the numbers went up, past what I thought was the usual but could see why but it kept going and stayed there with various configs, I was stumped but a few days later it clicked, when the van got the hail damage repaired it had thicker roof sheets fitted and the 200w solar panel was moved form over axles to over the front, there was the weight gain the full panel weight on the ball...................... Solution, don't get these stupid, "Lets check this" ideas ever again..............................

Oh I also found out that some people think 2 gas bottles weigh 18kg, wrong more like 36 to 40kg.............

 

[DRW]

Here’s another one to ad to the mix, AT tyres are heavier than road tyres, a friend of mine couldn’t find where the extra weight came from then he researched his new tyres, bingo!!

 

[Drover]

When I went from the dodgy Jayco alloy rims to good old ROH steel rims, I found I would have to dump 3 lts of water to keep the weight the same....

 

[BJM]

Interesting comments from two caravan park owners /managers up in Qld yesterday. Both wanted to know overall length of van plus what vehicle towing with.One guy told my wife will not be letting in large vans towed by Rams etc this year! He said knew other parks doing the same.Taking up too much room ,too many arguments when he told owners to park tow vehicles out side etcetc.Must say I agree ,as watching some of the rigs trying to get into sites is quite entertaining.

 

[Drover]

Hey @BJM , on the occasions I used parks with the Colorado I had trouble with 22ft of van and nearly 6 mts of tug, in fact even with the Jeep which is shorter by heaps its difficult, like shopping centre car parks they are just getting smaller...........but I can see their point with 2500's they do need a site to themselves in most places, thankfully I can't afford to travel and stay in parks so will miss seeing the bum fights..

 

[mfexpanda]

Hey @BJM , on the occasions I used parks with the Colorado I had trouble with 22ft of van and nearly 6 mts of tug, in fact even with the Jeep which is shorter by heaps its difficult, like shopping centre car parks they are just getting smaller...........but I can see their point with 2500's they do need a site to themselves in most places, thankfully I can't afford to travel and stay in parks so will miss seeing the bum fights..

i agree @Drover maybe these parks should have a look at how small and tight their sites and roads are .
these are prob the same park owners that are trying to close down free camp sites

 

[1DayIll]

Also people who are camping expect more. I recently arrived at a caravan park and a car was parked on my site. I honked the horn to get whoever to move it and this grumpy lady came out as if to say I was causing her pain and grief to move it.
The next day, the same thing happened.
We were in a motorhome heading back from QLD because of COVID restrictions so site was empty all day.

 

[Drover]

Thats just one of the many reasons I don't stay at parks unless I really have to....... @1DayIll some people just give you the sh*ts, but they are still out their in off grid land.......................... 50 acres, to camp and they want to pull up about 15ft from you with yippy yappers............. Where's that Chad Morgan CD ?????

OOooppppsss turning into a whinging thread................................


So @Crusty181 , we have been yabbering away keeping the thread high on the list waiting for you to tell us the next episode of the story, where's the pics, name that van and all that sort of stuff......................

 

[rags]

Having a 12 ft expanda I ( along with the wife) are now alert to the question by the park owners ask the size of our van when booking. We started finding when we quote the size of our van , often we would be slotted-onto the “tiny” sites of a park.
We now over quote the size of our van to ensure we get a reasonable size site.

 

[Boots in Action]

As I have just gone over this tow ball weight with Big Mal again recently, hunting the mysterious extra weight its has added since last time years ago, I can assure you that it depends how far in front of the axles the water tanks are as to how much extra load is thrown onto the ball, Big Mal's tanks are in front of axle and dumping one tank does not take 70kg away from the ball when emptied, I have worked out that like loading trucks there is a point where the load moves either towards or away from the axle, on a van its for each individual rig to be looked at, axle configuration plays a big part in load distribution so its a "Oils Ain't Oils" situation....roughly if you draw a line half way between axle and hitch anything on the axle side a roughy of 30% will end up on the ball' closer to the line and beyond it will of course shift more to it..... plonking 40kg on the bumper won't lift 40kg off the ball either, each van the angle of the dangle is different.... and having just re read the post before this applies to dual axle not single, something entirely different.............

In my case I was chasing a mysterious 10-15kg gain, stripped everything to the base line load and worked up, the numbers went up, past what I thought was the usual but could see why but it kept going and stayed there with various configs, I was stumped but a few days later it clicked, when the van got the hail damage repaired it had thicker roof sheets fitted and the 200w solar panel was moved form over axles to over the front, there was the weight gain the full panel weight on the ball...................... Solution, don't get these stupid, "Lets check this" ideas ever again..............................

Oh I also found out that some people think 2 gas bottles weigh 18kg, wrong more like 36 to 40kg.............

@Drover , that's because they forget that the gas cylinder alone weighs about 10 kgs before the weight of the gas 8.5kgs is added.

 

[Boots in Action]

Having a 12 ft expanda I ( along with the wife) are now alert to the question by the park owners ask the size of our van when booking. We started finding when we quote the size of our van , often we would be slotted-onto the “tiny” sites of a park.
We now over quote the size of our van to ensure we get a reasonable size site.

Also @rags , always quote the total length of van INCLUDING THE DRAW BAR and anything else you may have hanging off the rear. Just quoting the actual van (accommodation part) is what a lot of park managers look at. We learnt that early in our vanning days when having to stay in caravan parks.

 

[Drover]

Also @rags , always quote the total length of van INCLUDING THE DRAW BAR and anything else you may have hanging off the rear. Just quoting the actual van (accommodation part) is what a lot of park managers look at. We learnt that early in our vanning days when having to stay in caravan parks.

Not wrong Mrs D said 22ft so our draw bar blocked the road now we say 27ft...

 

[davemc]

Yes we say 9m or 27ft not 22ft as got really small sites.
When down at Cowes recently a few sites 2 cars each on the road. Park said nothing to them.
We had a big site with plenty of space was across from ensuite's.. when they put van and tents and gazebo no car space left hence road
Then a second car came in whinge off

With van.. I know I looked at a 24" 4 bunk and Tare TBM was 150kg from Tare Weight 2750kg.
Sort of off putting it was so low. Got some fluff answer. I assume best to have water in them.
Cannot remember where tanks where.
I have a pic somewhere.. yes I do

 

[rags]

Also @rags , always quote the total length of van INCLUDING THE DRAW BAR and anything else you may have hanging off the rear. Just quoting the actual van (accommodation part) is what a lot of park managers look at. We learnt that early in our vanning days when having to stay in caravan parks.

Yep we are all over it and usually quote 18ft which is about the expanded length.
We were recently at Woodgate Beach where we looked a bit odd parked up between 2 x 22ft vans.

 

[Drover]

Even with our Tardis a 14.44.4 we would have to say 20 ft or we found sometimes we had no room to open the bed end.............

 

[Crusty181]

I can assure you that it depends how far in front of the axles the water tanks are as to how much extra load is thrown onto the ball, Big Mal's tanks are in front of axle and dumping one tank does not take 70kg away from the ball when emptied

This van is only a single axle and the tanks were actually in front of the tyres, much like a cheap wheelbarrow with none of the cantilever buffer we get from a second axle of the duals. The grey tank was also significantly rear of the wheels. I told my buddy just ditch the grey tank and just get the forward water tank moved into its vacant position behind the axle .... sales dudes response was "no way Hose'".

We've experienced precious few places where greywater capture is required, and our 30ltr aux water jerry does the job on the 3 or 4 times we've needed it, and balancing the water tanks either side of the axle is more important imho than catching your noodles and Coco Pops in a plastic box

Interestingly, the sales pitch was "people" want grey tanks (I can only imagine that fuelled by the Faceache experts) and I started to think maybe design, safety, and common sense were playing second fiddle to just selling a caravan at all costs. That wouldn't be right, would it

So @Crusty181 , we have been yabbering away keeping the thread high on the list waiting for you to tell us the next episode of the story, where's the pics, name that van and all that sort of stuff......................

I'm reluctant to dob in the van brand and chassis manufacturer, partly because Im guessing its not a unique thing and partly because my buddy is still very very keen to buy it. Im thinking my role was slightly more about his choice validation than it was about critical analysis ... and in that case with water tanks aside "it's a nice van, good choice"

 

[Crusty181]

Interesting comments from two caravan park owners /managers up in Qld yesterday. Both wanted to know overall length of van plus what vehicle towing with.One guy told my wife will not be letting in large vans towed by Rams etc this year! He said knew other parks doing the same.Taking up too much room ,too many arguments when he told owners to park tow vehicles out side etcetc.Must say I agree ,as watching some of the rigs trying to get into sites is quite entertaining.

Yet another in the extensive list of benefits that are enjoyed with the ownership of a Troopy and its skinny width specs, along with its factory cheese cutters